main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

My theory on the Will of the Force and Anakin's role in the balance.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Turkey, Oct 12, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth_Turkey

    Darth_Turkey Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Okay, here goes. First post on Saga Forum so be gentle :0) Posted this somewhere else and was directed here.

    From chatting on other threads it just occoured to me there is an equal balance of greed on both light and darkside of the force that could be the reason for the chosen one and the eventual doom both Jedi and Sith end up facing, I.E there ending up being one jedi left, Luke.

    Anakin is created of the force, that much we know. Whether manipulated by a sith lord or simply created by it, anakin is the chosen one. To the Jedi he signify's the return of The Sith, the one who will bring ballance, though they know not how this will happen. To the sith (according to palps) he could be the manipulation of the midichlorians, willed into being and a possible savior of the sith, using Anakin to wipe out their enemies, the Jedi, forever.

    What if Anakin were created as a kind of test, a wild card. A test on the morals and egenders of both Sith and Jedi. Now, when the Jedi meet him they sence great fear in him. They also sence danger in training him . . . yet they still train him, for their own personal goals. He could be the chosen one, he wipe out the Sith, so they take a risk.

    Palps believes in a much wider view of the force and embraces knowledge of both the light and the dark side. He would no doubt be aware of this prophersy and knows of Anakins great power, yet he befriends him . . for his own personal goals. He could be the chosen one, he could destory the Sith, yet Palps is willing to take the risk.

    What if Anakin were created as a leverage to the force. Their is always 2 sith, no more no less, and there are always Jedi. Their number seems not to matter to the equasion. Then the force throws in a curve ball, Anakin, one who can tip the scales to either side, and the Force waits to see what happens (kind of)

    Now, if the Jedi had listened to their own fears, they would not have trained Anakin, he would not have grown up to be all powerful, and the Jedi may have defeated the sith without the chosen one.

    If the Sith had listened to the Prophersy and believed Anakin to be the threat he is destined to be to them, Palps should have killed him so that there is no chance of any prohersy coming true.

    Neither side did what they should of done and acted against their better judgements. Becasue this happened, Anakin first wipes out the Jedi, then ends up wiping out The Sith, he wipes the slate clean leaving one sole Jedi to start again. It was the will of the force to test the balance and unfortunately it was a stale mate, so it starts over again, the same as life has done many times in the past.

    Just a theory, any thoughts? :0)
     
  2. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    I like your thoughts. One thing I've always thought when thinking of Anakin and the Force is that the Jedi misunderstood him from the beginning. What I mean by that is the Jedi believe the Chosen One was sent to them to help them when actually I believe that case is quite the opposite. Anakin was sent to bring Balance to the Force, but also to change the Jedi's arrogant ways. In the end all that is left is Luke, who was trained through his love for his father. Luke's love at the end is what the New Jedi Order will be based around. So perhaps attachments aren't as bad as the old school Jedi might have thought they were.
     
  3. Darth_Turkey

    Darth_Turkey Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Yeah, good point. Plus Luke has knowledge of the whole "joing with the force" which is something that only came to light after the Jedi order had been destroyed. I think your right about the whole attachment thing, becasue it was only becasue of Lukes attachment and love for his father that Anakin could be redeamed. Yoda believes him lost, Obi-wan believe he is lost too, but Luke does not. Like his father he is unable to give up his Love and will fight for it, and fortunatley unlike his father he does not need to trun to the darkside to achieve this.
     
  4. DARTHIRONCLAD

    DARTHIRONCLAD Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Why do you believe balance of the Force has to do Jedi and Sith?
    When Obi-Wan said, "It's an energy field created by all living things."
    All living things, not a couple Sith and a bunch of Jedi. The Force does not have sentience. It doesn't know right from wrong because it's only an energy field created by all living things. That's why characters can use it for either good or evil, because it doesn't care because it's a non-sentient entity. But obviously something is guiding these characters to their destinies because of this dialogue:
    "Nothing happens by accident." --Qui-Gon
    "You cannot escape your destiny." --Obi-Wan
    So what is guiding these characters to their destinies if it's not the Force? That's easy. It's the gods that the Gungans and Ewoks believe in. Notice Boss Nass is susceptible to the Jedi mind trick because it works on him twice but the third time when Qui-Gon says, "Your gods demand his life belong to me," the Jedi mind trick doesn't work. Silly Qui-Gon can't use the Force when it comes to the gods' law. So Anakin was created by the gods to bring balance to the Force.
     
  5. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    DARTHIRONCLAD posted on 10/12/05 9:53am
    So what is guiding these characters to their destinies if it's not the Force?[hr][/blockquote]

    Perhaps fate ... maybe a bit of luck. Whatever it is, it's mainly dictated by the choices each of our characters made.

    When you take some of the quotes from AotC you will see the Jedi are creating arrogance within themselves. Something that obviously is frowned upon, yet the problem was only growing. That's why I believe the Force targeted both Jedi and Sith, not just Sith.

     
  6. DARTHIRONCLAD

    DARTHIRONCLAD Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    "In my experience there's no such thing as luck."
    It's not the Force guiding the characters to their destinies, it's the gods that the Gungans and Ewoks believe in.

    There Jedi are already arrogant in The Phantom Menace.
    "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent, now get out of here."--Qui-Gon
    "Why do I get the feeling we have picked up another pathetic life form."--Obi-Wan Kenobi

    Their arrogance of course is their weakness, but it is their indifference to the suffering of others that leads to their downfall. They should of shut down the cloning facility, but the Jedi along with the rest of the people have become so indifferent to the suffering of others that they don't even see that cloning sentient beings to be preprogrammed slaves is corrupt. As is allowing children to be born into bondage right outside your door. Evil will always be out there, but if the good people do not protect the weak from the evil, then the evil will reign.









     
  7. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    DARTHIRONCLAD posted on 10/12/05 11:25am
    It's not the Force guiding the characters to their destinies, it's the gods that the Gungans and Ewoks believe in. [hr][/blockquote]

    [face_confused]

    What in the World makes you think that? [face_tongue]
     
  8. DARTHIRONCLAD

    DARTHIRONCLAD Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Star Wars is open to interpretation. So until Lucas says that there are not gods guiding the characters to their destinies then I can think there are gods in Star Wars, just like people can think the Sith created Anakin.

    Fatalism exist in Star Wars because of what Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon say.
    "Nothing happens by accident."--The Phantom Menace
    "You cannot escape your destiny."--Return Of The Jedi

    If fatalism exist in a story then something greater than the mortal characters is guiding the mortals to their destinies. The Force isn't a sentient entity, because it doesn't care if a character uses it for good or evil. It's just exactly what Obi-Wan says it is.
    "It's an energy field created by all living things."--A New Hope

    So what is that something that is guiding these characters? That something is the gods that Gungans and Ewoks believe in. The Phantom Menace gives about 80% of the answers for the entire saga. The Phantom Menace dialogue and visuals say that gods exist in Star Wars. Qui-Gon and Jar Jar's meeting establishes that there are species in the galaxy that believe in gods. Jar Jar owes Qui-Gon a life debt as demanded by the gods. At Gungan city, Qui-Gon successfully lays the Jedi mind trick on Boss Nass two times. One time to speed Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan away and the next time to make Nass give them a transport, but look what happens the third time. The third time, the Jedi mind trick doesn't work on Boss Nass, because Qui-Gon's powers were made useless by the gods. "Your gods demand his life belong to me." Qui-Gon can't interfere with Boss Nass' decision about the life debt.

    When George Lucas first wrote Star Wars, the story was to be told from the point of view of people that were recording the events in the mortal world. They were called the Whills. Notice how the Whills are popping up here and there now that the movies are finished, even on theForce.net encyclopedia and the source is a book that Lucas wrote. The gods created Anakin and they guided him to the dark side to force the people to redeem themsleves.

    Take a good look at what's going down on all the planets of the new movies. Either the people are not getting along or they're building weapons, none of the people care for one another. Even on Naboo the people are not getting along with each, until the oppression of the Trade Federation brings them together.

    "Mom you say the biggest problem in this universe is no helps each other."--The Phantom Menace


     
  9. SephyCloneNo15

    SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2005
    If the Force is non-sentient, than explain this little snippet of dialogue:

    "It was the will of the Force."

    Did I stump you? How can a non-sentient entity have a will? I don't think some porcupine or whatever wills to stick its quills into its attackers. (don't ask where that example came from. I'm rather tired) Am I to believe that I mistranslated and the line is actually something about the Whills of the Force? Sithspit! I lost my train of thought. Good night, everybody. I'll see you all, same time tomorrow.
     
  10. DARTHIRONCLAD

    DARTHIRONCLAD Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    In fact Qui-Gon says it twice.
    "The Force will guide us."
    "I have no doubt that finding him was the will of the Force."
    Qui-Gon is correct because the gods use the Force to guide the characters. The Jedi just don't believe in gods, they only believe in the Force. It wouldn't be the first time the Jedi were wrong about what is really going on in the galaxy. Now when I say gods, I'm just calling them that because that is what the Gungans call them.

    Lucas is so ambiguous, no one can truly be right or wrong. Like I stated in my previous post.

    I don't like pulling things out of the books because I believe the answers are in the episodes well they're kind of in the episodes but
    this is part of a conversation between Padme and Obi-Wan on page 233 of
    Stover's Revenge Of The Sith novel:

    "But the will of the Force--isn't that what Jedi follow?"

    "Well, yes. But you must understand that not even the Jedi know all there is to be known about the Force: no mortal mind can. We speak of the will of the Force as someone ignorant of gravity might say it is the will or a river to flow to the ocean: it is a metaphor that describes or ignorance. The simple truth--if any truth is ever simple--is that we do not truly know what the will of the Force may be. We can never know. It is so far beyond our limited understanding that we can only surrender to its mystery."


    BTW, I believe this scene was filmed but was omitted from the film.

    Did that stump you?
     
  11. Darth_Turkey

    Darth_Turkey Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2004
    I see no evedence in SW that anything is the will of a God. The charicters in SW are many different races and from may different worlds. To say everything that happens is the will of a god you'd have to except there is one god for everyone everywhere and that the religions and beliefs of these various races are all wrong.

    The force does have a will and this is mentioned many times. If anakin was created of the force, surley there's reason behind this and a meaning to his creation. The Jedi thought he was to bring ballance to the force, though they did not know what this mean. To them Balance is to erradicate the ever growing sith threat. But maybe thats not what the force had in mind. Maybe ballance is to wipe out the stiff, ridged nature of the force that the Jedi have been preeching for thousands of years and teach a wider view of the true nature of the force.
    And this, in effect is what Yoda and Ben learn from the events that unfold. Thats why in ESB Yoda has a very different view of the force and speaks to Luke about "The Living Force" created from all living things.

    Yoda is suddenly speaking like Qui Gon, and why? Becasue Qui Gon has been teaching him about the living force from beyond the grave.

    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" . . . Ever hear Yoda talk like this prior to ESB? No, becasue he did not have this knowlegde of the force.

    "You mean it controls your actions?"
    "Partially, but it also abeys your commands"

    "Everything is the will of the force"

    "Finding him was the will of the force, i have no doubt of that"


    I have no doubt that the force has a will. It may not have a conciousness like you or I but it has a design, like all life does. They communicate through the force, they get their strength from it. There is no mention of a God as such in SW, as i dont believe Lucas would want to offend anybody's religious beliefs.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.