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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

My Thoughts On SW:TCG

Discussion in 'Archive: Games: CCG, TCG, and Boardgames' started by Arfour_Peeseventeen, Jul 23, 2002.

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  1. Arfour_Peeseventeen

    Arfour_Peeseventeen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    After the dissapointing end to Decipher's Star Wars license, I decided to venture out and try out Wizard's TCG and purchased the starter pack with the mat, dice, and cards.

    At first, I was excited -- three arenas, the randomness of the dice, the years of experience behind Wizard in the Card Game industry, and the AOTC cards.

    But then, the excitment was no longer as I played a "real" game through. The "tutorial" game was fun and enjoyable, but as I went into playing the "real" game, it lacked the enjoyment I had with the first.

    Strategy is what the TCG lacks, IMHO. It just seemed to me that all you did in the game was roll dice and deploy the card with the highest power so you can roll more dices.

    I had a game that lasted a mere two minutes after the space and character arenas were easily controlled by me. So I started another game, I won again in another few minutes. Then I played again, the game lasting the same amount of time.

    The game was too quick. It depended a little too much on the luck of the dice roll (you probably hear this a lot already).

    When this game came out, I was hoping for a Star Wars version of the excellent Magic game. What I got was a game with kiddie-pool depth.

    Yes, I am a Decipher fan (and please don't stop reading if this "offends" you or you've heard it all from us Decipher-fans...) and played their game for a long time. And yes, their game had the randomness of the "destiny" number also, but if you overpowered an enemy at a location, you definately "won", even if your opponent draws a good destiny number. Unlike the TCG, you don't need a couple of good rolls to win a battle, the CCG required a good force, combined with a good strategy, and hopefully a good destiny draw.

    The TCG lacked something critical -- the ability to reinanct the movie in the card game. In the CCG, I was able to make Attack Runs, use a Superlaser, run a Pod Race, hold a Senate meeting, etc. The CCG had depth and complexity, which some people hate, but I love.

    This was not meant to bash the TCG (read further). I think it has tremendous potential. If it had a little more depth and more than just the roll of the dice, I would invest my time and money into this game.

    I had a few things I love about this game, also. I love it that there are three arenas and you must control two of the to win. This forces you to spread you forces out enough that you make sure your opponent does not control any one arena too much and makes sure that you don't concentrate all your forces onto one arena. The dice roll adds a challenge to the game -- it makes it so that even a small force and beat an overwhelming force if the dice roll permits it. The building factor in the game is also awesome -- it allows you to put out as much units as necessary. The retreating option, though I never used it, is another cool thing about the TCG and adds a little depth to it.

    I want to love this game. Please make me love this game.

    R4-P17
     
  2. netcowboy

    netcowboy Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    I think there will be more strategic depth as future expansions come out and more mechanics are added to the game.
     
  3. Arfour_Peeseventeen

    Arfour_Peeseventeen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    I think there will be more strategic depth as future expansions come out and more mechanics are added to the game.

    That's what I hope.
     
  4. Bacabachaui

    Bacabachaui Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Are you basing your comparison off of a SWCCG game played with Premiere starters?
    Actually that is not really a good comparison either because the 2 player game is the lowest level possible to buy.

    If you got some boosters and some of the Sith Rising boosters coming out in a few days, you will find there is much more depth and strategy than the 2 player game. But it will still not quite be as much as SWCCG, becasue SWTCG is supposed to be a bit less complicated.

    It is fun when you start building decks with some of the more strategic cards.
     
  5. Arfour_Peeseventeen

    Arfour_Peeseventeen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    If you got some boosters and some of the Sith Rising boosters coming out in a few days, you will find there is much more depth and strategy than the 2 player game. But it will still not quite be as much as SWCCG, becasue SWTCG is supposed to be a bit less complicated.

    Yeah, my judgement wasn't exactly "fair".

    Maybe I will buy a couple of more packs. :) I know that the 2 player game can't be all to the game -- it just seemed to lack something. And cards that are not in the 2 player pack might be what it is. :)
     
  6. Lord_Sith_Nut

    Lord_Sith_Nut Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Even with more cards, you will still have dice.

    DICE

    Thus meaning, with the new cards, the strategy will go up like +10%, but due to dice, it will then lose +7% strategy.

    Take it for what it is.... DICE.
     
  7. Artie-Deco

    Artie-Deco Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Hey, is this board big enough for two opinionated astromech droids?

    [face_mischief]

    (That's the "mischievous" smiley, in case you were wondering....)

     
  8. netcowboy

    netcowboy Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Personally, I love the dice-rolling aspect of the game. There's nothing quite as satisfying as rolling 12 six siders when one of your souped-up big units attacks. But much as like with the random elements in other games (like card-drawing in Magic or Star Wars CCG) the dice-rolling does not detract from the strategy. Actually, it could be argued that with the build phase, and the opportunity to look at 1/4 of your deck and decide what gets deployed *before* the game starts, the SWTCG is *less* random than Star Wars CCG where you only get to use the small fraction of the deck that you're dealt as your opening hand. As with any random factor though in any game, this forces a person to be more strategic and not less so. That's my humble opinion.
     
  9. Jayna

    Jayna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2002
    I personaly like it because it is less complicated. Don't get me wrong, I stil like and play the CCG on occasion, but when I do, I am generally committing to a game that is going to take about three hours. With as much as I love making attack runs and firing proton torpedoes, after a few hours I start losing feeling in my butt- which, in turn, takes away from the fun of the game.

    Now that I actually have a decent TCG deck built, games range from 10 to 50 minutes on average. I think that's perfect for a game like this. Just long enough to be fun. I think it's great!
     
  10. Bacabachaui

    Bacabachaui Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Right on NetCowboy and Jayna. I agree totally.

    There was an article somewhere that the US Army or someone used dice to simulate real life combat situation outcomes. Can anyone find that article? It was interesting.

    And if dice are so bad, why are RPG's so popular?

    Yes, I know this is a card game, but the principle still applies. Building a good SWTCG deck is like designing a good RPG character and the rules for the entire universe it operates in.
     
  11. Lord_Sith_Nut

    Lord_Sith_Nut Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    In RPG's their is no dire need of strategy. The strategy that is needed in an RPG is not dependable on the dice roll usually.

    And how can die roll be more strategic then your deck?

    I don't wanna even hear that SWTCG has more strategy, we all know it doesn't. WE ALL KNOW IT DOESN'T.

    In SWCCG you have starting interrupts and starting effects. This allows for you to get some cards before the game.

    And if you say being able to see 1/4th of your deck before the game adds more strategy, it doesn't. It just means, who has the better rares and the better cards to make that 1/4th of your deck better will have a better chance of winning.

    Card drawing isn't a huge thing in SWCCG as it is in Raw Deal.

    Certain cards allow certain aspects. Over 3 thousand cards exist in SWCCG. Meaning, you need to know more then 3 thousand cards.

    In SWTCG even with 3 thousand plus cards, the strategy can only be upped by a little. Seriously, there is not much room for addition to strategy in SWTCG as compared to SWCCG.

    PLUS, SWCCG has Virtual Cards still coming out made by REAL players so their usually better and more well balanced then normal cards.


     
  12. Master_McKee

    Master_McKee Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2002
    I Did the same thing you did. It is ok but it will be better if Wizards makes a new jedi order expansion with Jacen and Jaina Solo. I hate the no planets part and force drains and stuff.
     
  13. Artie-Deco

    Artie-Deco Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2001
    THREE HOURS??!!?

    Good grief, Jayna! Either stop after an hour, or play with 40 card decks! :D

    Drawing cards from your deck is actually more strategic than rolling dice. Know why? Because you put the cards in your deck. Every time you roll a die, the odds of it turning up a 6 are exactly the same. But when you're drawing cards, if you've already drawn five cards with a destiny of 6, and you know you only put five 6's in your deck, you know exactly what the odds of drawing another 6 are going to be.

    In SW:CCG, you go thorough much more than a "fraction" of your deck. And in SW:CCG there are several mechanics for pulling cards you need out of your deck during the game. So that arguement, while interesting, is not valid.

    I said it before and I'll say it again: SW:TCG relies so much on dice that I would dare say it isn't a card game so much as it is a card and dice game. As Seinfeld would say, "Not that there's anything wrong with that...." ;)

     
  14. rfuthey

    rfuthey Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 14, 2002
    I don't think anyone is saying that SW:TCG is an extremely deep and complex game. But just because it isn't precise as CCG, doesn't mean that there's no strategy in it.

    The randomness of dice can almost be discounted, because you have a 50% chance of getting a hit. But I like the dice because they're almost a form of measuring accuracy, not every shot you take is going to connect.

    There's a great deal of strategy involved in building a deck. The starter doesn't do the game justice. In order to be successful at this game, you have to be able to focus on building a theme (ie. Jedi, Sith, Droids, Clones). If your able to master themes, then you should win at least 75% of the time.
    In addition, there's a lot of strategy in the initial build step. You can try to spread your units around and contest each area, or you can see what your opponent is doing, and go somewhere else. For instance, I had an opponent who laid down three jedi in the character arena, so I said to my self, it's time to take over the other two areas. I laid down all my cards in ground and space, and won the game easily because my opponent had wasted all his build points in an arena that I didn't even go after.

    I think the strongest part of the game is that it's simple to play. Just because a game doesn't have a rulebook the size of a novel doesn't mean it sucks.
     
  15. Bacabachaui

    Bacabachaui Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    LordSithNut says:"I don't wanna even hear that SWTCG has more strategy, we all know it doesn't. WE ALL KNOW IT DOESN'T."

    More strategy than what?

    It definitely has much more strategy than you give it credit for. Much much more than you try to make it out to have in your incessant trolling.

    Have you even played it much more than a few times with a few starters? Have you looked into what Sith Rising is going to add to the game? Do you even understand all the mechanics and card combos that do allow for a lot of strategy? If not, then why do you insist on constantly dissing this game?

    No, it does not have more strategy than SWCCG, but that is why SWTCG came out. To have a simple and fun game. You do not have to be a rocket scientist or scratch your eyes out trying to decipher the rules. You just have fun.

    EDIT: A Gentle reminder that although spirited discussion and debate is allowed, a "My game is better than your game" style of trolling is not tolerated on this board. We each like the games we like for a reason, and should be able to discuss these civilly in relative peace.
     
  16. Arfour_Peeseventeen

    Arfour_Peeseventeen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    I have played a few more rounds of SW:TCG and read some of the cards on-line and found that there is more stradegy than the game first appears.

    The only problem I have with the game is that the starter pack does not show the true nature of the game, IMHO. It doesn't show enough of the more interesting cards that require you to tap card, use force for a certain ability, or have shields.

    I had a blast (no pun intended) using the Trade Federation ship bombing the Ground Areana. :) That was fun.

    It's those kind of cards that add the depth to the game that I enjoy. I know that SW:TCG will never be a SW:CCG, but it's quite a decent replacement to the game.

    My initial opinion on the game would've been different if the cards in the starter were different in that it wouuld show more of the overall stradegy in the game.

    ~Arfour_Peeseventeen~
     
  17. Jayna

    Jayna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Honestly, I don't feel that the TCG is out to take over or replace the CCG. They're both two totally different beasts. Peronally, I intend to continue playing them both, although in the interest of time, I will probably end up playing the TCG much more. Yes, my CCG games really do tend to rack up the hours.
    I'm personally not a huge strategy nut anyway. I am studying to be a rocket scientist and enjoy playing card games that give my brain a break. That, for me, was the TCG's biggest selling point.
    So, I guess it all depends on what type of game pops your corn. :)
     
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