Myths about DLP, film and the Galaxy

Yep, Stone, Kurgan, and Krwade, I said before I was going to see it at the Galaxy some other time also, I just want to see it DLP first.

As for seeing it on the largest screen ever, I saw EP1 in Denton at that UA, and I had to sit on the front row to the left of center, and to me that was the biggest screen in the world, but it wanst enjoyabe, because I couldnt see the whole screen and didnt get the entire picture. I know thats not a problem unless you have to sit on the front row, but I dont want to risk that again, and so I have chosen to go to the Legacy (and for the other above reasons that we have said)

Everyone go where you like, OR come and join us in line, it really dosent matter, as long as you see it 20 times that weekend lol

Very good Point Jarvis....

You want the screen to be larger, sit closer.... that solves that problem, because no matter how big the screen is your eyes can only see so much...

Red 5 Out

I love the "go see it 20 times that weekend!"
We have to do all we can to destroy the webslinger! (jk, but I do like it when everyone recognizes the hugeness and greatness of Star Wars).

Any word from Legacy how they will be handling the "in-between-times" from show to show?

As I recall for TPM the Galaxy cleared everyone out of the theater and made us get at the back of the line of those waiting outside, after every show.

perhaps your right,, it might not be fun watching with roaches,, unless the roaches ARE your friends! Ayways, not that Lucas really needs the movie as many times as I can, if the preliminary buzz is correct, could this possibly be the best in the franchise? I got my spot Thursday May 16th at 7:30 at the Galaxy to find out!

Brad, thank you for your excellent post.

I work in the information technologies industry, am a certified (video) projectionist and have been working with digital projection since it first hit the industry 5 years ago.

Brad is right about the 1280 max resolution. And the bigger that is the more you will notice the pixelization because the little squares will be bigger.

Let me make a comparison for those trying to grasp the digital world: Have you ever noticed on the back of a CD where it says: "ADD?" Well, the 'A' stands for Analog and the 'D' for Digital. Until recently, musical bands were recorded on 24 track analog tape, remastered on analog tape and then a digital copy is burned. Sometimes you will see a CD that is DDD which means it was recorded on a digital drive, remastered and edited on a digital drive and then burned to CD.

Film is equal to analog. Movies are light captured on film and then spliced and edited on analog editing machines and then copied onto film reels: AAA. DVD's are captured on film, edited on film but then burned to digital disc: AAD.

TPM (like all movies with FX in the last several years) was shot on film, edited digitally and then released on film: ADA.

AOTC will be the first major movie to be shot on a digital camera, edited digitally and released on a digital drive (to 39 theatres): DDD. All the other theatres will be seeing a film copy of the digital work: DDA. By EpIII (maybe) when more theatres have digital projectors, all movies will be DDD and the film distribution industry will cease to exist.

But the concept that a film of AOTC is better than viewing it in dlp is a little confusing for me. Since the original is digital then dumping that to film cannot have a higher resolution than the digital original. If I recall from your original post you said that the tape that Ep2 was shot on was 1900x1100 or something? What resolution was it edited in? So the digital projectors will be down scanning to make the orginal fit on the digital chip.

I just moved here, where is the Galaxy? And 500 seats is not a lot at all. The Mann's in Hollywood has 1500. How many does Galaxy 5 and 9 have? And is the DTS and SDDS an alternative to THX or a way of hearing it?

Who cares Scooby Doo is going to ROCK!

Thats the best thing youve said so far Whatsabongo! JK

Red 5, the Legacy (MAY) have more than one theater showing ATOC, but only one (MIGHT) have DLP, right now, we believe (POSSABALY), it will be theater 13.

If you want to go to the Galaxy its in Garland off 635, exit, if your going east, at Jupiter, go throught the light, pass the car lot, then you will get to the theater. Its a bit harder if your going from the west, but jsut exit garland rd(?)(or Jupiter and do above) and take the loop back to the theater. (Fry's electronics is right next door)

If you want to see it at the Legacy (sold out for midnight) Go up Central (75 north) to Plano, and exit Legacy, turn left at the light in the right, left turn lane (I know) and then turn right, RIGHT after the Racetrack Gas station the line is at the far side of the theater.

Hope you make it! MTFBWY!

It's gonna take a lot longer that Ep III for major producton houses to switch to digital. Slowly but surely, major directors are making the switch (Robert Rodriguez, for starters).

While there will always be film purists, the majority of popular "filmed" entertainment will eventually be digital. It's cheaper, easier to store, retrieve and reproduce without any generational or age-induced resultion loss.

Those of us who work in DV (I'm an editor) are so very glad we're in the forefront of this ever-evolving technology becasue, for once, all of us over the age of 30 will have the advatage over the puppies graduating from high school when it comes to the computers! Woohoo!

f1ct10n,

It is comments like yours which amaze me. I don't think I ever said that anyone on this board was wrong for thinking that DLP looks better. I only came on this board and stated hard facts which can be proven without a doubt on the bench. If DLP gives you the illusion of a better presentation and you are convinced, then by all means GO THERE! Whatever it takes to make you happy.

Yes I do think Galaxy is a better theater, by far it is a better theater than Legacy. It may not be as pretty or new as the Legacy, but my judgment is based upon what happens when the lights go down in terms of picture, sound and everything else that comes with that. Did people go to the GCC Northpark 1&2 for the "glitz"? Hell no! They went their for the presentation. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However my comment has no bias to do with my having any ties to Galaxy and I do not appreciate some of the words that have been put into my mouth on this thread. You mentioned that you were in amazement at the green band on the DLP. Have you never noticed that the green bands at the Galaxy are every bit as clean? There is no dirt there. Apparently you have been watching your movies at theaters that do not handle their film right which have left a bad taste for film in your mouth. Cinemark even intentionally cuts those green bands off of their film trailers to HIDE the dirt. They have done this since the 1980s for that very reason. (and I got that reasoning straight from a guy at their corporate office.)

I still think many of you are missing the whole point. I'll put the statement I am trying to make in one simple and super short paragraph:

DLP can not display the resolution of the source camera material that Episode II was shot on. The only way you can see all of the picture data is on film.

Is that so hard to understand? Just because it is "digital" does not mean it is "perfect". It's a simple statement, that one no one seems to be willing to admit to. Maybe the resolution drop doesn't matter to some of you, and if so then that is your opinion and that is absolutely fine with me. I am not debating preferences here, only facts.

Go see the movie wherever and however you like. Go see it on a screen half the size of what you could be watching it on with an sound system that is not up to Lucasfilm's specs if that will make you smile. All that matters is what YOU think is better, but facts are facts and as such those are indisputable. In the end I really don't care where you see it. I never told anyone that the choice was not theirs. Remember that. However, the comments I see some of you posting here are passing the point of ignorance and crossing the line of being offensive. This does not seem to be the same group of guys that I remember from the Episode I gathering.

Brad, like Eric was saying, the decision to move the line to the Legacy was an incredible opportunity for the group more than anything. We did try to set things up at the Galaxy, but believe me, if we had done it, it would have been a very poor line-up indeed. We couldn't even get the lot behind Sam's this time and our responses from UA upper management were ...inconsistent, at best.

However, we had a unique opportunity to turn our line into more of an event this time around with the Legacy's proximity to the May Sci-Fi expo and Atomic Entertainment. Additionally, the Legacy and Cinemark corporate were offering us a deal and support that was basically just too good to refuse.

That, more than anything is what caused us to choose the Legacy this time around.

Yes, sometimes people can get a bit over-zealous on the boards, but just remember that one person speaking does not always speak for all, and communicating on a forum is inaccurate, at best. Healthy debate is always welcome on these boards, but everyone please keep it civil and friendly. Brad's an old friend to a lot of us and he should feel welcome here.

Brad, I sent you a private message a few days ago, did you get it? If not, please drop me one so I can get your e-mail address.

I just wanted to chime in with my thoughts. Brad is correct in saying that even though DLP is digital, it won't show all the info that was shot on tape for Ep2. A (good) film transfer looks to be the only way to see all of Ep2's glory in a theater.

I also think that because so many run-of-the-mill theaters have crap projections and sound, the fact that DLP is clean and doesn't suffer from scratches, dirt, or projector jitter, it appears better than most theaters we typically watch films in. Good film projection is better than DLP, but the vast majority of theaters don't have good film projection. (^_^) I've seen Monsters Inc, Final Fantasy, Ice Age, and a couple of other films at the DLP at the Legacy and loved the experience. I AM looking forward to the future development in digital video, as it will reduce costs to me as a filmmaker (I hope to get back to making my own films eventually.) And digital projection could help level the playing field so we don't have as many bad projections from the less competent theaters. But for the time being, film (when done correctly) is still going to be the superior medium.

That said, my co-workers and I will be seeing Ep 2 for the first time at the Galaxy at the Thursday 10:45 pm showing. I've never been to the Galaxy, but have heard about it. And in this case, it is the sound system that is swaying us towards the Galaxy as much as anything else. I'm glad to hear it will have a good film projection as well.

I saw Spiderman at the Cinemark IMAX on 635 this past weekend. They had great sound too (^_^). But their new projector lens was designed to use the entire IMAX screen, so I think they wound up clipping the sides to get the IMAX aspect ratio. Not a fan of that...


Later,
Michael Duffy
mduffy@ionet.net

So what...

You guys kill me about all this bull about "this is better and this is bigger"

Stop being little winnie babies about it. Brad you left the Galaxy and came back now you want to defend your company. Do it elsewhere. We ( DFWFanForce) will be lining up at the Legacy, and that is that....

Go to the Galaxy if that is your choice, but stop defending or attacking everything else because its not what you are doing...

And all this talk of resolution doesn't mean diddly... A 21" monitor and a 17" look the same at the same resolution only the 21" allows more viewing Pleasure.

But a bigger movie screen doesnt make a difference being bigger unless you have the crappy seats.....

Red 5 Out

So when's the Galaxy going to get a digital projector?

Here's the word from someone who saw a digital version of the film:

FINAL NOTE: 35MM VERSUS DIGITAL PROJECTION
So, how different is the 35mm version when compared to the digital projection? Dramatically different. The 35mm version comes with the usual flaws ? dust, hair in the gate, scratches, etc? The main difference is that the digital projection features more vibrant colors and a generally sharper appearance. Yes, it is superior, no matter what the old school film folks say. And, the other advantage is that a digital print that screens on day one looks exactly the same as one that screens on day 101. Not true for a film print which easily begins to look abused after only two weeks. At all costs, see ?Clones? in a digital theater, the way the filmmakers intended you to see it, you won?t be disappointed. And if the theater in your area does not have a digital theater, ask when it?s coming. In fact, demand it.

From FilmThreat.com (http://www.filmthreat.com/Reviews.asp?File=ReviewsOne.inc&Id=2071)

To krwade3,

You are indeed an idiot. Do you not read before you post?

Note these lines from my last posting: "All that matters is what YOU think is better..."

Followed immediately by: "In the end I really don't care where you see it."

Now before you spout off another rude response, go back and READ what I have written on this thread. I have posted facts, not opinion. Your response is all opinion mixed with hostility that is uncalled for. I am surprised the DFW Fan Force permits this since you are directly representing them.

Here are some of the FACTS that I made earlier in this thread:

*Film has more resolution than DLP.
*DLP projection cannot display all of the resolution of the video source material which Lucas shot Episode II on.
*You can see it on a bigger screen at the Galaxy than you can at Legacy.
*The sound systems at Galaxy are Lucasfilm THX certified. The ones at Legacy are not and do not meet the specs of which the film was mixed.

Now even just taking those 4 points, you can say the EXACT same thing about seeing the film at the Cinemark Webb Chapel on one of their large screens (except of course for the sound system). Am I saying that everyone must watch the film at the Galaxy? No. Am I saying you must not patronize a Cinemark theater? No. I'm surprised I have to spell it out for you. If your eyes tell you that DLP is better, then fine go see it there ten thousand times, as I don't really care. Remember I don't make any money on the film regardless of where or how many times you see it. I only posted here to enlighten the fans of FACTS. Your response was out of line.

Nice welcome wagon you DFW Fan Force guys have going here. I know there are always a few A-holes in every bunch, but this is ridiculous! I suppose if I said "Episode II will be in color" that even though that is a fact that can be proven, I would get flamed too. Pathetic.
--------------------
To Rebel_Rouser (since he made an intelligent and mature post)...I honestly have no idea. Personally I wanted a DLP projector there so I could go head to head with it in a true film vs. video situation, for in my opinion, few theaters properly handle film which gives the DLP a distinct advantage of cleanliness in the projected image. Here are some links for your reading pleasure.

http://www.dailyherald.com/timeout/events.asp?intID=3738541

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=776959

http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-ebert10.html

All you guys are idiots.

I'd rather see a DVD movie on a 27 inch television than a VHS Tape on a 40 inch HDTV.
Or 35mm film on a damn home projector which is what all movie theaters are any damn way.
What Ford is to Lincoln is what Super 8 is to 35mm. It's basically the same once you get right down to it.

No matter what these "experts" say,(who are on here cry babying that the digital age is here to up end crappy celluloid) 1280 x 1024 on my computer STILL looks better than a reproduced 35mm print. Don't look at the facts and figures, look upon it "with my own eyes".

Lucas has spearheaded this movement into the digital age and all these other "filmheads" are bitching because their jobs are about to go the way of the dinosaurs.

Think of all the money distrubition companies stand to lose if EVERYBODY went digital. This is the only reason the digital era is moving so slow.

well, while i agree DLP is superior "looking" to film, there is some real problems that need to be tackled before DLP can go mainstream

1] film projector costs $20,000 and will last 15 years. DLP projector costs $150,000 and will be obsolete in 2 years.

2] theres no public outcry for demand for DLP. there needs to be a grassroots effort to force theater companies to do it, which they will if the public says they want it.

3] regular 35mm film tranfersed to DLP doesnt look all that great and most people dont notice the difference. if the work was originally created digital [like iceage, toystory2, ep2] they look FANTASTIC on DLP but regular 35mm film transfered to DLP isn't anything special. so the original works need to be created digitally for DLP to take off.

.........................stone

Yeah, I hear ya.

It's just like music.
Sometimes you can't even get the best quality transferring from CD to CD.

Something always gets lost "in the mix".
Everything needs to be first generation.
Once you start copying it becomes second generation and so on and so forth.

(I'm not really into MP3 that much yet so bear with me)

When you hear a music "album" that was recorded, mixed and mastered digitally (DDD) it sounds FLAWLESS. Go listen to your oldest CD's that are AAD and you can hear a HUGE difference! Same goes with film.

I agree digital film technology has a LONG way to go, but if it wasn't as good or far BETTER than celluloid, then why the hell did George Lucas bother (not to mention gambling his money) to making this film in TOTAL DIGITAL?

My hat's of to my Main Man GL for taking our hand and walking (guiding) us into the 21st Century!

To krwade3, You are indeed an idiot.

not really sure about this dlp vs. film debate, but i think flix hit the nail on the head with that one.

hey if you guys got a better deal at the cinemark, great. i don't really care for the galaxy anyway since it's out of the way for me and quite frankly not what it used to be. i did get to see ep.1 out there, but not on the first showing like the rest of you. hope you all have a great time were ever you see it.

to krwade: try get some freaking manners.

Well i will be seeng it Wednesday at the Galaxy and Thursday at the Legacy... so i do not think it matters which one is better... i get both...

<edited for flaming>

krwade3, whoever you are it is YOU who is hiding. I told everyone who I was including my real name from the very first post and many of the core group knows me. Who are you exactly??? Perhaps we'll never know because you are the one who is hiding behind your stormtrooper mask.

Anyway to the rest of the mature folks here, it certainly will be interesting to do side by side comparisons. I do plan on catching Episode II at the Legacy in DLP at some point, as this of course is the first "live action" videotaped movie to run on the DLP projector, as opposed to film negatives that are transferred to DLP for projection. I just hope George isn't doing what I hear he is doing and won't intentionally degrade the quality of the film prints in an effort to make DLP appear to look better. Time will tell.

flix, just ignore him.

i agree about wanting to do a side by side. i'm doing the first show @ legacy but i still plan on seeing the THX @ galaxy, perhaps on saturday or sunday.

GUys chill out!

Just face it. Film sux and DLP is where it's at IF the movie was filmed in digital.

I will see for myself if this 35mm print is any better than the DLP by next Monday.
Until then, let's keep all these angered comments to yourselves or else I'll have to come down and do some bounty huntin'!!

You idiots...

I would have to say that I agree with Flix and Stone on the part of the side by side comperison. I am really looking foward to seeing the movie at the legacy DLP. However I do still remember how great TPM was at the Galaxy. I owe it to my self and the Galaxy to see it there as well.