Name a servant of the Empire who was not evil !!!

...Ackbar was never an ally of the Empire. He was a slave to Tarkin.

 

Well, that would literally be a servant of the empire as someone mentioned above, .

 

Don't forget Maarek "I can navigate a minefield in an unshielded starfighter while my wingmen are ordered to attack me" Stele

 

What about Han Solo? This rising star of the Imperial fleet threw it all away to save a Wookie from being slaughtered. He wasn't evil. He was a kid who ended up in the Academy due to his exceptional piloting skills.

 

Of course he did turn into a drug dealer, .

 

No one was evil, not even Palpy. Well, I guess he was evil, saying as how admitted that he was using the "Dark" side. If he had changed it to being called the "Light" side he could have just been classified as a misunderstood individual. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. Strange how good and bad is decided by who ever is the winner.

 

Of course he did turn into a drug dealer,


Yeah, but he was forced......

Oh, they're all a bunch of pigs, aren't they? lol.... J/K

 

Admiral Gilad Pellaeon

 

Lucas's underlying moral lesson hidden in the star wars movies, is drug dealers are your best friends against the oppresive nature of the tyrannical government, , , .

 

Zaarin. He abducted the Emperor to overthrow his tyrannical reign on the galaxy, but failed.

 

Forced to become a drugdealer???

Oh yeah. And Charles Manson became a massmurderer because his mommy didn´t loved him enough.

As to my comparison of the United States with the empire, i can write a sidelong comparison of the two nations, if you want. But thats not the point her:

My point is and was, that deeds were done, that were more than morally questionable, if not outright crimes against humanity and which of course can be justified with the "greater good".

And how much do you think, the majority of the population realized of the crimes commited in the name of the empire. After all, the rebellion was mostly playing in the outer rim and the empire controlled the holo-net.

And lets not forget the close ties to criminals (smugglers=Talon Karrde, Booster Terrik), gamblers and weaponsdealers (Lando Calrissian, what do you think Tibanna is used for?), pirates (several of the Marvel Comics), slaveholders (Hutts in "Rebel Dawn") and others (Black Sun in "Shadows of the Empire" and "Wedges Gamble").

Not something what makes a respectable government, if you ask me.

 

"gamblers"

Yep, I guess this means everyone who has ever gambled once in there life is a criminal(But you would know probably, I've never gambled before so can't make that judgement.)

"and weaponsdealers (Lando Calrissian, what do you think Tibanna is used for?)"

I guess Hunting and sports stores, smith and wesson production compony, winchester production company, browning, glasgow gunmakers, vickers, company that made the British SMG, Luger, mauser, ruger, webley & scott, thompson, lee enfield, walther, remington etc down through the ages are criminals cause they sell guns, that makes them gundealers. Yep criminal activity.



Yes, I know pretty much anyone could take any country or civilation in the world past and present and analyze them and make sidelong comparisons of them with the empire if they wanted too: Nazis, british empire(this one tied and allied into the US's military decisions most of the time, as well as having there fair share of attacking and bombing civilians.), roman empire, napolean's empire, Catholic Church(At times, in history), other Violent Protestants(at times, in history), Other religions in the world(at times, in history), United Nations, Nato(two groups that share power with many nations of the world, joint operations) etc(every country has there bad aspects). woop de doo. I guess that makes everyone in the world evil. Including those that live in the countries. Everyone. Yep part of being human, and no one can say they are complety innocent of sins. Evil exists in everyone(If someone was to deny it, they'd be lieing to others and themselves which a bit of sin). Yep thanks for confirming how bad the hellhole earth is, and how corrupted human nature is.

 

What about Qwi Xux? And the Noghri? They weren´t evil, they were just duped.

 

I agree with that. There are probably a lot of lower officers and allies that are duped by the Empire. Davin Felth.

They just don't write very many stories about them.

 

Well in my opinion one of the high ranking officer who wasn't evil is probably Almirant Piet, because he was only doing what theoir superiors told him to do, and yet we never saw him destroying hole planets just for the fun.

And I think that valiento has a good point in regards with the comparison of any nation with the empire, though I have to say that good or bad depends on the point of view of each nation and people, as an example, the intervetion of the US in Chile was seen at the time as a good thing by the US, but by the citizens of Chile it was bad, and ultimately it was determing that the hole thing was bad, but if you look at the Intervention of the US in WWII this is categorized as a good thing, because it help stop the nazi atrocities, and yet if you ask some german people they would think that until the war declaration of Japan, and with this of his allies, the US had nothing to do with WWII.

And a more modern example is Afghanistan, wich was helped by the US during the Russian ocupation, which was a good thing if you think that Russia wanted to take Afghanistan as part of their territory, but then the US intervention became a bad thing because the rest of the world just saw the withdraw of Russian forces, and no one did nothing to help Afghanistan to get back in his feet which made the Taliban, taking the power of Afghanistan and the results that we all know and regret.

So as a conclusion everyone will see that his/her actions are good, until you take an objective point to determine it, and even if the actions are good there is only a small diference between remaining good and becoming bad.

And still we have to agree thet there are some common thing that we know for sure that are bad, such as the genocide of people for their believes, or the hunger and violence in the world (Oh men I sounded like a politician [face_shocked] , I have to avoid this kind of statements)

 

DarthBane81...
"What about Qwi Xux? And the Noghri? They weren´t evil, they were just duped."

However, that subterfuge does not absolve them of their evil actions taken afterwards, such as the cold-blooded murder of Imperial officers, etc.

They may have thought the Rebels tainted their homeworld and the Empire was fixing it. But, their actions taken in retribution against Rebels are wrong just as much as evil actions defending the Empire because they were supposedly cleaning up their planet for them.

There are clear limits to the "I was misled" defense. The Noghri certainly stepped beyond them.

 

Thanks for voicing my point in greater detail Valiento.

Eighter there is a war in the SW-galaxy and in wars bad and evil things happen, or there is no war and then the government has to deal with an uprising and terrorists.

Besides, how much of the galaxy as a whole have we seen so far? Hardly the majority of the one million memberworlds and fifty million local governments, colonies and protectorates mentioned.

About Lando being a gambler, i wasn´t trying to condem him for being good at Sabbac or enjoying a game to much, but that he earns his living with if, if he isn´t trying to cheat other people for their money (even if they deserve it).

As for the weaponsmanufacturer:

Who do you think Landos customers at Bespin are, if he doesn´t want the empires attention on his neck? After all, as far as i know, the empire was anything but communistic in nature (more very capitalistic). Not to forget the people he trains in asteroidruns in his little establishment at Dubrillon in the NJO.

 

"Thanks for voicing my point in greater detail Valiento."

I have no problem with expanding on your point, I just wanted to make sure that blame doesn't rest on just one nation, because every nation out there has done stuff that could be deemed morally questionable

Though, point in attacking just one country, and singling them out when there are many out there doing the same things. Useally when countries get involved with something it's a joint action with 2 or more nations that could all be to blame, and do share the act.

"the empire was anything but communistic in nature (more very capitalistic)."

Actually the empire is pretty much a hybrid, so many types of world government styles did exist within it. Imperial Communism existed in some of the outer rim territories to keep the people under the boot. -Stele Chronicles, for one source of the mention of Imperial Communism.

 

"Who do you think Landos customers at Bespin are, if he doesn´t want the empires attention on his neck?"

I think Lando was dealing with people like, well, for instance, the REBELLION. That would make sense...

The Rebellion against the Empire was in and of itself a criminal act, so every one of the people in it were criminals. The fact is that crime is sometimes more just than the law.

To compare the US intervention anywhere in the world to the Empire, seems to me naive at best. There are many small differences, and one great one: The US does not intervene for its own ends. I would like to know one material thing we gained from the Central American actions, or those in the Balkans, or those in Afganistan.

We went to those places to fight oppression. The oppression that we fought, and that we fight today, was not oppression of US citizens, but of peoples who could not defend themselves. The Empire always served its own ends, which was why it failed.

Nuke Japan? Heck yes we did, because that country needed a wake-up call!

The Empire of Japan to that point had produced a generation of maniacal killers, and Hiroshima and Nagasaki, however much overkill they provided, also jolted into awareness the collective conscience and moral awareness of the Japanese people. I do not think they deserved so much suffering, I just think that it may have served their future as a nation better the way it happened.

 

Thrawn and Palleon were not evil, they just wanted to bring order to the Galaxy.

 

Umm not quite Risste...

The US tends to intervene for its own ends, but those ends have often been in defence of democracy and western ideals. See the Cold War. The problem of the last decade is that the US has not yet adjusted to the fact of its Cold War victory. Yes there has been the Gulf and the Balkans and Somalia but in each the US has been cautious and appeared weak as a result. It's lacked the ability to go all the way, as it did in the Cold War. Given some of those acts in that time maybe that's a good thing, in other ways it is not. There are a few principles that it's worth keeping hold of, even in peace time.

As for Japan, the public really did not matter, they followed the emperor and the generals. The bombings enabled Hirohito to convince the generals that the war could not be won by military means, but it took two atomic bombings to do this. The Japanese public and generals still wished to oppose the allies but the Emperor was their God thus what he said went.

Jedi Ben

 

"It's lacked the ability to go all the way, as it did in the Cold War"

Going all the way? We never even sent troops to the Cold War, it was err, cold...

I wonder, what ends of ours were we serving in Bosnia? In Kuwait?

If it's true that the populace of Japan still wanted to fight at the end of WWII, then they must have been rather shall we say deluded? The nukes still in that case served to enforce the realization that Japan would burn if they continued to resist, even if only to Hirohito.

The explosions over Hiroshima and Nagasaki served to arouse the mentioned realization in those who were at least partially rational in Japan. That was my material point.

I agree that the populous of Japan had not learned the evils of their Empire by the end of the war.

Even today, the history of Japanese atrocities in WWII is not often studied in Japan, but is often hidden under layer after layer of reproach to the victors for using "excessive force."

 

Risste...
"Going all the way? We never even sent troops to the Cold War, it was err, cold..."

?

Between 1992 and 2000, the Clinton administration cut national defense by more than 500,000 personnel and $50 billion in inflation-adjusted dollars, notes defense policy analyst Jack Spencer. A just-released Congressional Budget Office report finds that military funding would need to increase by $50 billion a year simply to maintain the size of today?s forces.

Since 1992, Spencer notes, the Army has lost four active divisions and two reserve divisions?30 percent of its staff. The Air Force is down by five tactical squadrons, 178 bombers and 30 percent of its active personnel. The naval fleet has gone from 393 ships in 1992 to 316, and the Navy has decreased its active duty personnel by 30 percent. Even the Marines have lost personnel?22,000 since 1992.

I'd say that any of the millions of U.S. troops who served from the 1950's to the early 90's would disagree that we never sent troops to the Cold War.

 

I compared the empire and the US for the simple reason, because the US are viewed as the good guys. I have no problem with that, being a citizen of Western Europe, but that doens´t mean i have to be blind and quite, if something is morally wrong.

The American Constitution, which was written in 1776, grants every human being the right of freedom, dignity, religious beliefs and so on.

Despite that document, whichs ideas have become a molerodel for nearly the entire westernworld, there has been slavery for nearly a century AFTER this document was written and the question of civil rights is still not solved.

Compare this with the empires position towards the nonhumans, if you want.

Its not necessary to discuss the crimes and mistakes of the past or to say, the US is the only country where such things happened and because of that we can point with fingers at american citicens without fear.

As for the interferences:
And yes, the citicens of african countries or in Southamerica were truly grateful, when their elected leaders, even if socialists or even communists or just because they didn´t agreed with anything the "first world" thought or wanted, were assassinated and replaced with dictatorships: Pinoche, Noriega, the guy, who is still president in egypt... .
The point is, those people made a choice, we didn´t liked that choice and therefor made sure, the situation changed in our interest.

The magical word is "interest".

A government has the right and the obligation to defend its interests and the interests of its citicens. And that was, what the empire was doing, what the majority of imperial commanders and ordinary soldiers and citicens was doing.

As for Kuwait and the interest of the western world (note, that i say western world, not US): How about the oil.
And for Afghanistan: Do you think anybody of us would have cared about that piece of desert, if not for the events of the 11. September?

 

For Fteik & Risste...

Bosnia and Kuwait were an attempt to promote the New World Order propsed by Bush. It started wel but went wrong in Bosnia. What the West forgot there was the necessity of firmness, if you threaten to bomb people who continue to defy you you then bomb you, you don't hold back. It took the west years to actually do this and dismiss Serbian reports of civilian casualties, which there always will be in war.

Instead of letting Aideed's men drag the 18 dead US soldiers around the strets of Mogadishu and retreating the US should have counter-attacked and sent a message that doing as Aideed did was very stupid. If that had been done the war of Kosovo may not have even had to happen and September 11 may not have occurred.

At present the supposed war on terrorism is being fought in the old way when it is a new war not confined to the battlefied, in this war military victory can be undone by political error. The US started well, but it's screwed up strategically and is playing into Bin Laden's hands which it should not be doing.

As for the cold war, the cold refers to the non-use of nuclear weapons, if it had ever gone hot we wouldn't be doing this now.

Jedi Ben