Lit Nature of The Light and Dark Side

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Chewbacca89, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    While there are countless stories of Jedi being seduced and turned to the Dark Side, I find a lack reciprocation from the Sith. Do you think Jedi are more likely to switch side than a Sith would be? Just though it was an interesting idea. While a Jedi might be seduced by power and control, what motivation might a Sith have to turn to the Light Side?
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  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    [IMG]
    Lower expenses for skin moisturizer. :D
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
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    Well - Darth Plagueis alleges that Darth Gravid fell to the light side...

    We can probably discount Revan due to unique circumstances!
  4. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    The darkness is always more tempting, because its the easier path. The idea of just letting go, not having to follow the rules of society, living only for your own wants and desires, very compelling. On the flip side, the path of the light is the more noble, but harder path. And how easy is it to choose the more difficult way? To know there's an easier way, but to reject it in favor of the harder way.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Nov 9, 2012
  5. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Vestara Khai joined the Light Side.
  6. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Once you've gone, it's hard to go back.
    The dark side controls you.
    And apparently the dark sider is "easier".
  7. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Then she yo-yoed back.

    I think there's plenty of cases where people join the Lightside again. It's just that people rarely offer redemption to people who get involved in mass murder/destruction.
  8. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    The way it's been portrayed sometimes lately the dark side pretty much turns you into a video game NPC. You barely have any thought processes behind Cruelty coding and the heroes can do whatever they want to you and still be the heroes.

    I dunno, I guess I like it better when it they write is "darksiders are evil because they're terrible people" than "darksiders are evil because the dark side makes them terrible people."
  9. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Eh, Lucas seemed to have retconned that out.

    Anakin isn't affected by the One Ring, he's just a guy who makes bad choices.
  10. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    Did she really? I always thought she was just kind of play-acting. I never felt she had a real conviction to turn away from the dark side. She was just manipulating Ben....IMHO
  11. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    One doesn't fool a Jedi Grandmaster's mind touch with play-acting - granted, she was very interested in Ben, though!
  12. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    I agree. I don't think its possible to fool Luke. I don't know though. Something just doesn't sit right with me that she had turned away from the Dark Side. I guess I just feel conflicted about her true intentions. I guess I am thinking if Palpatine could hide his intentions from Yoda and Windu, is it crazy to think Vestara could fool Luke?

    EDIT: Before someone asks, I am not comparing Vestara to Palpatine as far as power goes...
    Last edited by Chewbacca89, Nov 10, 2012
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  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    I posted elsewhere that I thought she was a situational-conformist with a screw loose.

    The situational-conformist part might be a survival mechanism in a Sith social-order.

    The screw-loose bit was her attraction to Ben.

    The only way that Luke could have been 'fooled' is if Vestara genuinely wanted to change - but she reverted to Sith-type behaviour later in the book (until she can unlearn it, it's her default setting), which she thought would make it impossible. She does seem to have a penchant for killing people that are supposedly on 'her side' - but she did do it to to save Ben's life!

    That said, the revision/correction/retcon (in the ERC) of her Thermal Detonator throw at Allana - into a "botched on purpose" attempt during Apocalypse does give me (and others) some hope!
  14. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    Honestly, I wasn't happy with how Luke believed Vestara's turn to the light side hook, line and sinker. Notice Jaina wasn't overly fooled. Mara wouldn't have been fooled at all. Luke just wants to see the good in everybody and maybe it takes a woman to know another woman. I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask a woman.
  15. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    I don't think that Jaina really believes that any Sith can be brought back to the light - even her grandfather!
  16. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5


    You can see here the journal of a Sith Lord who rediscovered the lightside, without any help from the jedi.

    Basically, like all Sith, he contemplated the nature of power, but realized passion is easily manipulated, and the power of fear is temporary at best. True power, he realized, came when one overcame fear, and the only way to overcome fear was to stop grasping after things, power, and even life itself, and lets the force guide their actions.

    Elsewhere in the game, the Jedi Knight meets a very honorable Sith Lord who he can convince to defect. Noticeably, while many Sith choke their subordinates for failing even when they followed the Sith's orders to the letter, he felt responsible for his arrogant apprentice's death at the players hands.


    And here, the player can start a conspiracy of light sided sith.
    Last edited by MercenaryAce, Nov 10, 2012
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  17. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Agree.

    Also I've been thinking - how is the dark side "easier"? Yoda described it this way all the way back in 1980. Since then, the prequels happened. Anakin's reasoning for using the dark side in Episode III is that there are unique powers available there. But they don't seem any "easier" to use or acquire? I have a mental model of how I imagine this kind of harder/honorable/"means based" vs. easier/dishonorable/"ends based" dichotomy, and I'm unsure how this works with the Force now, given the prequels as they are. Maybe it's like, "if you're the kind of person who would want to use the dark side, killing all of your friends to charge up your dark side battery is easy"?
  18. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Vestara turned back to the Light in terms of wanting to be a Jedi and good girl. However, she was weak and turned BACK to the Dark Side the moment Ben was in danger.
  19. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Oh that's... lovely. Seriously. I'm increasingly looking forward to free to play TOR... because then I actually will play.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Nov 11, 2012
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  20. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I love that video too.

    I really should get on with it and update my dang computer so I can play. I've been putting a decision off and off ever since discovering I was unable to play WoW Cataclysm two years ago. :p
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 11, 2012
  21. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    INteresting discussion. I have a couple of personal thoughts.

    In regards to why the darkside is easier I think it has everything to do with self-control. Harness power and ability in the light side requires keeping yourself in check. There are boundaries you do not cross with the Light side. The dark said allows you to fully give into your emotions in the moment. It is acceptable to push the boundaries as far as you are willing to go.

    What makes a dark side turn back to the light? Interesting question. it seems some have done so for various reason, but I see a common theme in most who defect back to the light. They do so out of a strong emotional attachment to something or someone else. Ironically attachments are one of the things that supposedly lead someone down the dark path, but they also can pull on out of that destructive life. In the end it comes down to the individual rather than the light side and the dark side.
    Chewbacca89 likes this.
  22. GrumpyGreg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2011
    She wanted to belong first of all: appreciation, trust, love. Especially love. And the Jedi had all that, but to join them she must turn her back on the dark side. It was genuine, it's just that it was only a minor step toward the greater goal. And fighting a dark-side addiction with everyone around radiating suspicion and still treating you as a junkie is very discouraging.
  23. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    It's easier to use the dark side because then natural emotions don't have to be supressed. I don't think there are specific powers for each side. The Force is a tool. Intentions/the wielder make the difference.
  24. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    star 6
    That's how I'd prefer it to be, but that doesn't appear to be how Lucas wants it to be.

    Also, isn't a revulsion at killing allies a "natural emotion"? Isn't love, in the spiritual/ethereal sense (Campbell's "bliss," which would seem to go along with Yoda's teachings at any stage) a "natural emotion"?
  25. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Eh, you get my general point, right?
    I assume the love you are talking about is the general compassion, not the romantic stuff Jedi should be above?