Arena The NBA Thread

Unless you exempt Wilt, there's not really a discussion about which player had the best offensive season of all time.

 

definitely true. top 5 though? gets more interesting.

 

Off the top of my head, limiting each player to just their best season, top five would be

Wilt
Shaq
MJ
Lebron
Kareem

Not convinced on the order of 2-5. At all. Outside of LeBron (2012-13), I'm not 100% convinced which season I'd take as each players best offensive season, either.

Steph definitely with a chance to break through this season.

 

I'd take Shaq off that list because of the free throw issues. Actually, I would take most of the big men off the top 5 list because most of them can't create their own shot. I typically think of scorers are players that can create their own shot and you'd want the ball in their hands at the end of the game.

Here's my list of best offensive players I've seen.

Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Reggie Miller
Kobe Bryant
Tom Chambers


Steph Curry is still early in his career, but he'll probably make that list when it's all said and done.

 

That's ... an incredibly narrow view of offensive dominance.

I mean, to each their own. But, that's an incredibly narrow view. Anyone who watched Shaq play would be a fool to say he wasn't an absolutely dominant offensive force.

 

there are a lot of problems with your post, ssp. one is that tom chambers is on it. i mean all-star caliber player sure, but top 5 offensive player of the last 30 years? come on man. also if your criteria is guys who create their own shot you gotta take miller off that list. pure shooters like reggie are the most dependent on coming off screens and using other guys to get themselves open. also lol @ the idea that guys like wilt and kareem and shaq didn't create their own shot. these guys created their own shot even when they were guarded by two or three players. maybe i'm not understanding what you mean by that.

 

I actually think the opposite. Having Shaq on the top 5 scoring list is the more narrow view. I've watched Shaq's career since he came into the league. I remember watching him in his first All Star Game being gang up on by the Western Conference, but he got that throw down on David Robinson. I don't think Shaq has alot of range and can't shoot from the free throw line. Moreover, he needs someone to get him the ball when he's on the block. I would put Kakeem Olajuwon ahead of Shaq. Olajuwon had such great footwork and he abused Shaq when the Rockets played the Magic in the NBA finals.

As mention above, the guys on my list are players I would trust with the last shot of the game with the championship on the line. I definitely wouldn't call Shaq's number if I needed a bucket at the end of Game 7 to win a championship if I had the option of the other guys on my list.

EDIT:




I love watching Tom Chambers. Of course this is all subjective and perhaps I say things to create a conversation.

In regards to Reggie Miller, I remember the battles he had with the Knicks were he had to create his own shots. A lot of them in front of Spike Lee.



Miller could post up and take guys off the dribble.

 

well that seems more like the very specific question of who would you want to have the ball if you needed a bucket at the end of Game 7 to win a championship. nearly everyone is going to have different answers to that question than they would to the question, "who was the most dominant offensive player of all time?"

and discounting big men because someone needs to pass them the ball on the block is insane. you're basically just saying you have a bias against centers. it wouldn't be any different if i said i don't count point guards because they don't command a doubleteam on the post or get many points on the offensive glass.

 

Well, when I think of the word dominant offensive player, I think of a player that could get his shot off at any point of the game against any defense thrown at them. I never seen Wilt play, but I know he didn't play well against the Celtics. They were able to defend him. I'm not saying Big Men can't be dominant offensive players, I just don't have them in my top five.

As I posted in the edit above, I think Hakeem Olajuwon is a much better scorer than Shaq because he had some many moves in the post. Same with Tim Duncan.






I think of Shaq as a dominant force for sure. He's in a class of his own and I like how he talk smack to Bill Walton about the Big Man pecking order. That was funny. Shaq came into the league as nothing but raw talent. I was in awe of it, especially when he tore down the hoop in New Jersey with Derrick Coleman standing near by. I think because Shaq was is physically imposing, that most people don't look at his skills.


Edit: I take Tom Chambers off my list and put in Hakeem Olajuwon. There, I have a big man on my list.

 

well as you say, a lot of what you're arguing is subjective, and i don't have a problem with your opinions but they don't seem like they really belong in this discussion. what we were discussing was who had the most dominant individual seasons of all time. it's a fun discussion, and still certainly somewhat subjective, but there are a lot of stats and advanced metrics that can help us at least narrow it down.

for instance look at how many times shaq appears near the top of this list, then try to find where hakeem's best season appears (it's #78). the list i posted earlier of offensive win shares is another great starting point. so when you come into a discussion that we're trying to have as objectively as possible with anecdotal comments like "yeah, but remember reggie against the knicks" or "well, i liked hakeem's moves better" it's just a little frustrating.

 

The crazy thing to think about tho is, this HAS to be stephs best season right? Like, he's not gonna top this one.

 

i don't even know man. i don't think anyone saw this season coming. who knows what's next.

 

I think we are seeing Steph's absolute prime now, and I'm glad to be currently witnessing it. He's 27 going on 28, that's the age when some top NBA players are usually at the peak of their powers, but it'll be different for some players. MJ peaked in 1991 at the age of 28, Lebron peaked at 2013 also at the age of 28-his 2013 season is the best I've personally seen as a legitimate two way player since I was too young to see Jordan, Hakeem, and Duncan. Hakeem's peak was when he was 31, 32 back when the Rockets won the titles in 94 and 95. Duncan's was in 03 when he was 27.

I got this information based off RealGM, been following that site for several years and some of the posters on there have really good detailed analysis along with stats. It's a very interesting list to read.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1404723

 

from espn

https://twitter.com/espn/status/695420136644169729

This season, Steph Curry is shooting 60.4% on shots from 28+ feet. The NBA average from 3 feet or closer is 59.5%.

 

The Oakland Area is excepted to be filled with all kinds of celebrities this Saturday night with the Thunder coming into town and the Super Bowl being played down the freeway the next day.

The Dubs will have a good amount of rest before they take on the Thunder. It would be amazing if the Warriors are able to blow out the Thunder like they did against other elite teams. However the Thunder have been hot. Should be another great match up.

 

I'm a bad person who giggled when I first heard this story.

 

Well that sucked.

 

**** the Celts man.

Also WTF WITH THIS SHAQ HATE SSP

KAZAAM WAS BETTER THAN THE OTHER GUYS YOU LISTED

 

That needed to be three posts so I could like all three points

 

Love me some Dream! He's the best Center, in my opinion because of how versatile his game was. He could bang in the post (with some of the best post moves and footwork ever), he could take you outside with his mid range game, he hit his free throws, elite defender and shot blocker, and got a lot of steals for a guy his size. He may not have the best stats or been the most physically dominant, but his complete game, leadership, and character put him at the top IMO.

 

i agree that physical dominance and stats aren't what determine the greatest center, but for me the discussion has to start with russell. 5 mvps, 11 titles, in a 13 season career. and all the things you mention, complete game, leadership, character. i also love hakeem though. if i made a top 5 centers list he would be number 5 i think. russell, kareem, wilt, shaq, dream.

 

Bill Russell is overrated. He played against the weakest competition in league history... To me Tim Duncan is the greatest center of all time.

 

lol

 

...he played against Wilt Chamberlain.

 

As far as all-time centers go, my list is:

Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Olajuwon
Russell