Lit Nelani Dinn's death

Having read and re-read that terribly depressing novel called Betrayal and then reading Nelani's death scene, it was literally heart braking and and terrible.

For those of you that read LOTF what your reaction to his scene, how did it make you think of Jacen?

 

Jacen, you idiot. Don't trust Lumiya!

I know of a fan-fic that has an AU scene of it where Jacen takes away Nelani's memories instead and returns her to Lorrd and gives her enough to start over there.
In the current story of the series (LOTF re-write), she will eventually be found by some young Jedi and be told of her origins and should meet Jacen (Darth Caedus by that point I imagine) again.

Bit more poignant in the fan-fic because Nelani and Jacen had scenes together during the DNT re-write set before Fate's Betrayal (the fic where Jacen took away her memories).

 

It was probably the most unsettling example of rationalized, cold blooded murder seen in a Star Wars story to date.

 

And the worst part is that nobody notices, nobody cares, nobody investigates her disappearance.

 

I'm not trying to say things like Vader going nuts and massacring Padawans wasn't terrible, but at least you see him in the full mania of the dark side. He acts like he's high on the darkside, and probably is. Even then he still is in the midst of a physiological breakdown, tears on his face as he finishes his massacres.

Jacen is just, "Hmm, I guess the most logical solution to galactic peace IS to murder Nelani." And he does. It's more serial killer like in my personal view.

 

For me it was the moment when reading SW became painfull instead of enjoyable.
I always thought it was a horrible act, far more than Mara's death the event mist people blame Jacen the most for.

 

Until Ben does, seven books later.

 

He does? I thought he only investigated his mother's death?

 

Mainly that, but I seem to remember he was thinking about how things regarding Nelani's death didn't line up, and even if he didn't directly investigate it I believe he was intending to prosecute Jacen in memory of Mara and Nelani.

 

Didn't Luke and Mara come to the conclusion Lumiya's fictitious daughter Brisha Syo kill Nelani. They never discovered the real killer.

 

Yes. They, of course, later discovers that "Brisha" is Lumiya. But at that point I think they just assume Lumiya's the killer and they never realize Jacen is. Ben may or may not; as I said above, I can't remember but I think her death is one of the things he wants to prosecute Jacen for.

 

I'm sorry Nelani has got to be one of the most chilling and cold lines a Star Wars character has ever spoken.

 

Not to mention most stupid lines ever. Sure Jacen, trust the famous darksider who is responsible for lots of deaths, a long-time grudge against Uncle Luke and has obviously been sabotaging the peace process (not that Jacen ever catches on to that part, not even after she sets of that civil war using GAG codes).

Her death is very sad, especially because she was such a minor character. She was trained by Jacen then betrayed by him, and because of her circumstances she's never even met the main Skywalker family so they don't know her well enough to wonder about her death too much. Only Ben met her, and he has enough on his mind.

 

I seem to recall Jacen being an idiot all throughout the book. He's all like "oh no, I need to be more ruthless in order to save people" and any reader with a quarter of a brain would be banging their fists on the fourth wall going "no you fool, YOU created the situation where people's lives were endangered in the first place!"

 

Hmm...Why does that sound familiar? This absolutely happens is real life.

 

Nelani's death is a tragedy, but it's not the real horror. The real horror is that by 40 ABY, Jacen Solo was already prepared to embrace the Dark Side. He was ready even before, during the Dark Nest Crisis. Upon returning from his 5 year sojourn, Jacen Solo was not the same man who had become one with the Force and destroyed Onimi. He wasn't the same man who felt compassion for the Yuuzhan Vong and found a way to save their race. Somewhere between The Unifying Force and the Joiner King, Jacen Solo lost his compassion and morality. When he returned to the Jedi and his family, he was a different man. Outwardly he appeared the same and many parts of the old Jacen remained. But at his core, Jacen had become cold, ruthless and most importantly, arrogant.

With all his knowledge and purported wisdom, Jacen believed that he knew better than any other being in the Galaxy. And he started to act on that self-assured belief. The more arrogant he grew, the less he began to think of the other Jedi. They couldn't measure up to him, couldn't do what needed to be done. As he grew more and more disillusioned, Jacen became callous and ruthless, as the opinions of others did not matter to him at all. He thought little of the Jedi Order and was becoming more and more open to another path. But no other path presented itself to him, for a full decade after the end of the Vong War.

So when Lumiya approached him and offered him the Sith path, a path that aligned with many of Jacen's beliefs, Jacen wavered. And as soon as Lumiya added that Vergere had always wanted that for him, it was the final key in the lock.

Jacen Solo was ready to join the Dark Side in 35 ABY. He just didn't have anyone to lead him down the path.

Nelani Dinn was in the company of a Dark Side-leaning Jedi on Lorrd and the Home. She had no idea how dangerous her old teacher really was. None of the Jedi did, until it Jacen Solo ruled the Galactic Alliance and Kashyyyk was in flames.

 

Same author you linked me? Has been pretty good but haven't gotten to the LOTF era portions yet.

 

The way Omen portrays it, Jacen was already quite some way down that path of assuming his way was the only way, early in his 5 year journey. Luke is thinking that while the Jacen he's seeing on the Aing-tii world (through flow-walking) isn't Dark yet, his patterns of thinking are pointing him there already.

 

Yup. The LOTF AU stories are a game changer though. Won't blame you if you quit after the first chapters. The plot lines that come from them are pretty exciting though imo.

 

Exactly. Jacen was headed in that direction. But much like Anakin Skywalker, he could have been saved. It's just that nobody close to him realzied what he was becoming. Or if they did, they didn't speak up or do anything. Jaina was the first to realize that there was something wrong with Jacen. But she didn't do a thing. It was poetic justice that she paid the price for her inaction by having to be the one who put the insane and destructive Darth Caedus down like the mad nek he was.

 

Vialco
You call a sister having to murder her brother poetic justice? That was a horrible thing that will scar her for the rest of her life and the reason for it was nothing but Lukes hypocritial self absorbed thirst for revenge. Instead of killing Jacen himself he made Jaina do it to keep his own hands clean.

In my opinion that's the sickest crime in LoF Luke, Han and Leia pressing Jaina in doing this horrible thing. But I agree Jacen was absolutley savable.
But Jaina was a victim as was Jacen. And those who forced her into it and prevented Jacen being saved Han Luke and Leia got everything they wanted at the end.
There was no justice.

 

By far my biggest problem with LOTF is the way Han and Leia just... gave up on Jacen. For all the things that TFA got wrong, it at least rang much more true in that Han and Leia would never just write off their son. Han in TFA was willing to die for his son. In LOTF, Han seems like he wants to blow his son's head off the moment he looks at him the wrong way.

And don't even get me started on a line I hated in Invincible: I can't remember who said it, but in the scene where they were discussing whether Jacen could be saved (and Han basically responded, "lolno"), one of the characters said, "redemption is only for those who want to be redeemed."

That... that is so... stupid. Vader didn't want to be redeemed. Many of the characters had even said that Jacen was somewhere within Caedus. Maybe he couldn't have been saved. But Denning just turned them all into a Jedi hit squad, rather than what they are supposed to be, people who try their best to look for the good in people before chopping their heads off.

LOTF was a recent read, so still kind of a fresh wtf for me. But overall I found much to enjoy in the series. Just not that point. Way to be crappy parents, Han and Leia.

 

What I cant get over is that Luke acted like a mafia don. Kenth Hamner wasn't helpful either I seem to recall he told Jaina to kill Caedus even if the possibility of capture or incapacitation was an option. In other words kill him or don't come back.

 

Hamner was a semi-decent character from the NJO that LOTF and FOTJ turned into a massive, bland turd.

 

I agree with a great deal of what's been said; IMHO, Jacen had issues long before DNT, but that's at least somewhat open to interpretation.

LOTF and FOTJ both suffered from having intriguing premises (Corellian independence? Ben Skywalker's ascent to heroics? Lumiya? A semi-sane Sith culture developed by JJM?) ...

and terrible, terrible execution (Jacen contracting a case of idiocy, Ben-as-assassin-and-later-abusive-boyfriend, Luke forgetting he's not in Dark Empire II any more, and ... everything to do with Abeloth).

But back to Nelani. The single, single, STUPIDEST moment of Betrayal for me was when Jacen agreed to follow "Brisha" back to her asteroid.

Where she's casting incredibly vivid Force-illusions from.

Ben and Nelani even attempt to talk him out of it, and Jacen just plows ahead.

JINO, any of a half-dozen 'fic explanations ... all make more sense than a moronic move which even pre-Traitor Jacen wouldn't make.

(Well, OK, maybe early NJO-overly-pacifist!-Jacen might. But he'd at least be more suspicious. Maybe. Or at least he'd bring a few Noghri.)

TL, DR - to borrow a Britishism, post-DNT Jacen is mental. Said with the right inflection and amount of contempt, it just says it all, right there.