Amph [NERRRD] Observations, rhetorical questions, and comments regarding Star Trek (General Thread)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I didn't mind the first one so much by itself. I figured they needed to reset everything and establish the universe-- plus I wasn't very familiar with Abrams and Lindelof. I thought the actors all did a decent job even if the supporting cast was kind of reduced to caricature. I was willing to forgive the stupidly gaping plot holes and lens flares and the action-oriented plot. It wasn't until it became clear that STID was more-of-the-same-but-much-worse that I soured to the whole thing.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Mar 17, 2014
  2. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    That about sums it up...
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    io9 used this pic today for an article. Just a neat screen grab of my tied-for-favorite Trek ship design:

    [IMG]
    Mr. K, BigAl6ft6 and Juliet316 like this.
  4. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    so in another thread in the Ep. 7 forum I tried to give a poster a crash-course in Star Trek with essential eps / movies / personal favs (and overriding narrative that emerges from certain interlocking episodes)

    TOS eps- "Space Seed", "Trouble with Tribbles", "City on the Edge of Forever", "Journey to Babel", "Mirror, Mirror", "The Tholian Web", "Amok Time", "Spock's Brain"
    TOS movies - "Wrath of Khan", "Voyage Home", "Undiscovered Country"
    TNG eps - "Encounter at Farpoint, Part 1 & 2", "Measure of a Man", "Best of Both Worlds Part 1 & 2", "I, Borg", "Unification Part 1 & 2", "All Good Things Part 1 & 2"
    TNG movie - "First Contact" (but I do have a soft-spot for "Nemesis" and "Generations". But really all you need is "First Contact")
    DS9 eps - "Crossover", "Past Tense Part 1 & 2", "The Visitor", "Trails and Tribble-Ations", "In the Pale Moonlight", "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", "Extreme Measures", "The Emperor's New Cloak"
    Voyager eps - "Future's End, Part 1 & 2", "The Killing Game Part 1 & 2", "Dark Frontier Part 1 & 2", "Someone to Watch Over Me", "Bride of Chaotica!" "One Small Step", "Timeless"
    Enterprise eps - "Broken Bow", "Regeneration", "Borderland"/"Cold Station 12"/"The Augments", "In A Mirror Darkly, Part 1 & 2", "Demons"/"Tera Prime"
    And the two Abrams flicks!
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Mar 31, 2014
  5. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    I'd suggest adding "The Enemy Within", "The Menagerie", "Arena" and "The Doomsday Machine" to the TOS list.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  6. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6

    I'd also suggest adding Descent to the TNG list.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    You also need "The Search For Spock" and "The Undiscovered Country", for the films, since they're important in understanding the conflict between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. "Balance Of Terror" for the situation with the Romulans and "Errand Of Mercy" for what sets up the Khitomer Accords.
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Apr 1, 2014
    BigAl6ft6 and Kenneth Morgan like this.
  8. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I think a "crash course" is completely the wrong approach, especially with the heavily-serialized DS9 and later.


    Come to think of it, don't bother with post-DS9 if you want to get someone into Trek.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Apr 1, 2014
  9. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    What if Abrams touched on the Dominion War in the third film? Would it be monumentally stupid?
  10. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Cramming into 2 hours what took DS9 at least three seasons' worth of episodes, all starting with a contrived way to get the TOS-era Federation in contact with the Dominion? No, I'm sure it would be brilliant.
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    On the flip side, a TOS-era Dominion itself might be different.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  12. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    That is, smaller and more difficult to reach from Federation space.
  13. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I only suggest it because Abrams and friends don't know how to do original storylines.
  14. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    No, they don't. I wouldn't be surprised if they went with the Borg. They call up Old Spock to ask for more Needless-Exposition-to-Tell-the-Audience-They're-Ripping-Off-A-Better-Story, and he says, "I dunno, I wasn't really in that series."
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Heh. Well, he would know of the Borg since the Romulans had encounters with them and had spies in the Federation and Starfleet.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  16. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Yeah, I blanked on Balance of Terror and Arena and Doomsday Machine (also Squire of Gothos, personal favourite) just trying to keep a fairly manageable number for all the series. And I actually do dig Search For Spock a lot, it certainly does the fun romp vibe of TOS a bit more easily than Final Frontier (although I would argue that Final Frontier is actually a great example of the workaday, cheesy, not-quite-making-the-philosophical-point of the more weaker TOS episodes, and I think out of all the movies it captures the spirit of what the show was week to week, if not what it was like when it is really good.)

    You can find great DS9 eps that are disconnected from the larger Dominion War narrative (well, aside from "In the Pale Moonlight", but I'd say that episode is so freakin' good that it totally works as a standalone if you know zero about the overriding arc of the series). I'd actually say on a whole I like DS9 as solo episodes as opposed to the big ole giant arc, which was revoultionary for Trek Big Picture speaking but I dig on the episodic eps, probably because TOS is the apex of "episodic" single series.

    There is a whole bunch of fantastic Trek stuff in Voyager and Enterprise. Are they arguably the weakest series of all of Trek? Yes, definitely. Is every episode they did terrible and awful and not worth watching and an offense to the Trek name? Hells no, there are some eps of both those series I'd put up in some of the best stuff Trek did. You gotta mine for gold in any of the series but there's definitely gems in every one.

    Descent is something I always view as an interesting side-story offshot of "I, Borg" and, hey, you get a chance to see Spiner mug as Lore which is always fun, but it always seemed a bit awkward in comparison to how taut the classic "Borg" episodes (and First Contact!) is.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Apr 1, 2014
    Sarge likes this.
  17. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Actually, I was thinking of the emotion chip, not so much Lore, or the Borg.
  18. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    ^ Tru dat! Although, if you've never seen "Descent" the emotion chip just kinda pops up in "Generations" like "Oh, yeah, I had an emotion chip sitting in my closet the whole time". Works enough. Also, the fact that it goes from thumbnail size in "Descent" to about fist sized in "Generations" kinda drives me nuts. Maybe him and Geordi were tinkering with it.
  19. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I did not like Hugh- in concept, execution, or what he represented. The whole purpose of introducing the Borg was to create an enemy that could not be reasoned with or controlled in any way shape or form- that was extremely scary...all brought down to size when 'oh, here's a boy Borg with feelings that we can hope leads to a peaceful Borg alliance someday.' To hell with that- FIRE TORPEDOES! Picard rightly got reprimanded for letting him go. Janeway and Sisko would have made the more ethically difficult, but RIGHT decision and introduced the nanovirus into the collective.

    "Starfleet has every confidence in the Enterprise and her crew, they're just not sure about her Captain." Damn right!
    Last edited by Mr. K, Apr 1, 2014
    BigAl6ft6 and Sarge like this.
  20. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Not Janeway when she was being written as non-psychotic, no (Future Psychotic Janeway did release a virus in the finale). Sisko, maybe, because he had more trouble letting go of a grudge. Neither would've made the "right" decision.

    Also keep in mind that 1. These were pre-FC Borg. They weren't walking assimilation machines, among other things. 2. This is only the third time they appeared onscreen. Both the characters and the writers were still trying to understand them.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  21. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I understood the concept of the Borg just fine when introduced in "Q Who", totally cemented in "Best of Both Worlds". The whole setup of the Borg is that they were relentless monsters without individual thought or identity. Being assimilated is just about the most nightmarish scenario I can imagine in the ST universe.

    Then they stumble across childlike Borg who have become separated. Yes, I felt sympathetic to them as a viewer. The argument regarding Hugh brought on by Geordi convinced Picard, Guinan, and me too. It's that Picard took it upon himself to make a decision to not act on an opportunity to annihilate a dangerous aggressor who has already killed thousands of Starfleet personnel and assimilated countless others that just doesn't jibe with me. As captain, you might have to send one, two, or a whole team of your beloved crew into a Jefferies tube and expose them to radiation, Delta rays, and who knows what to fix the ship- but you can't send a Borg back with uber-contagious Borg poison? Picards argument- who are we to be responsible of destroying an entire species. Opposing view- your duty makes you responsible and who are you to decide that these monsters continue their conquest of destruction upon unknown countless civilizations because it sours your conscience?
    Last edited by Mr. K, Apr 1, 2014
    Sarge likes this.
  22. Dark Lord Of The Empire Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 4
    Sounds like something Section 31 would do if they were ever able to get their hands on an individual Borg and send him back to wipe them all out, as they tried to do with Odo and the Founders. Picard would never do that though, and if he did he would be no better then the Borg themselves. As he says in Nemesis, he could never wipe out the population of a whole planet (let alone a whole race), he's better then that. Wholesale annihilation of a race isn't the Federation's way.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  23. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    Pity that Picard didn't have Archer, April, Pike and Kirk there to, so to speak, push the button with him, letting him know that, "You're the Captain of the Enterprise on the day it isn't possible to get it right. But you don't have to do it alone"
    Last edited by Kenneth Morgan, Apr 1, 2014
    halibut and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  24. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6

    Except that the three Doctors didn't push the button. They found a way to both save Gallifrey and destroy the Daleks, so your analogy doesn't really work.
    Last edited by Chancellor_Ewok, Apr 1, 2014
  25. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    Well, I didn't say Clara was there to urge him to find another way. Besides, they ain't Doctors, they're Captains of the Enterprise. Big difference.