Amph [NERRRD] Observations, rhetorical questions, comments & 55 Years of Star Trek (General Thread)

Well, I'd argue that there is no "in character" for the first two seasons of TNG. The main cast wasn't fully realized until season 3. Picard, for example, varies between BIG HUMANIST SPEECH and petty, angry bully. And yeah, Riker was pretty much forced at gunpoint to do what he did. I wouldn't say "The Measure of a Man" is a perfect episode, but it's top-tier for the early seasons. I think it's alright believability-wise for Starfleet and Federation law to be unprepared for an artificial intelligence of Data's type and for someone to try to exploit that (and importantly Maddox ends up seeing the error of his ways because Trek).

 

Yes, there is an element of the first 2 series "finding its feet" character-wise. but not when it comes to Starfleet, an organisation that already had 3 series of TOS episodes.

Data entered the academy via the usual channels. Got assigned his first mission. Got promoted more than once. There is NO doubt that he is a member of Starfleet. The whole premise of the trial is that he wasn't allowed to resign. That is what is non-sensical.

All of the considerations of his rights would have been established years ago, when he first applied to the Academy. We've already seen in "Coming of Age" how stringent the acceptance rules are. That's the argument that should have been made.

But not only that, the whole "We must have this trial right now even though we don't have the right equipment, staff, so therefore his commanding officer has to argue against him, and the only reason to have it is because one commander wants it and we'll have the trial in a ****ing pub" is just stupendously awful. It's ball-bouncingly terrible.

 

Yeah, the contrivance that forced the main characters to participate in the trial is a bit eyeroll-worthy. And Maddox could have easily argued that Riker prosecuting it represented a clear conflict of interest (or maybe he did, I don't remember). Then again, this is the show where it's always necessary to send multiple members of the senior staff on away missions instead of the hundreds of other crewmembers on the ship.

 

Let's just say I'm really not looking forward to watching that episode again.

But to go back to earlier suggestions,

Elementary Dear Data - Love this. Apart from the ridiculous notion that the computer can create sentient life, it's a good fun romp.
Q Who - An exceptional episode. Also it's the fastest that the Enterprise ever goes under its own power. Warp 9.8 - I won £10 in a bet on that once. The other person claimed that the fastest was in Encounter at Farpoint.
Time Squared - I don't remember that much about this one, but I am looking forward to watching it again
Shades of Gray - Yes, it's a poor episode, but understandable given the strike issues at the time. But I don't mind "bad" episodes. The two things I hate are out-of-character writing, and "reset buttons"

And with that latter suggestion in mind, I would also nominate the Voyager episode "Nemesis" for one of the worst ever episodes.

 

I can see all of the complaints about "Measure" but there are many episodes in Star Trek where a character would go against type so they could play with the moral issue, and I think "Measure" is an early TNG episode that didn't have to rely on visual fx spectacle to get your attention. the "his strings have been cut" works as a really great button to the scene and is one of Trek's most memorable act breaks. that's just two actors, and how many times can you say that about season 1-2 of TNG pulling that off? There are so many cool beats throughout, I always dig how Madoxx keeps calling Data "It" and barely makes eye contact with him. Also Patrick Stewart's "Starfleet was founded to seek out new life, well, THERE IT SITS!" is one of my fav. Picard moments in the series, and I think that speechifying he did actually went a long way to solidifying the character of Picard, how he stands up for principles more than anything, for the rest of the series run since generally before that he's mostly just kinda grumpy. I think there's enough interesting stuff in the episode with a whole bunch of solid dramatic payoffs that makes it very watchable and has a neat question even if it literally strains characterization and logic in very manufactured ways. I can dig it, the end result is worth it. At least they gave Riker uber angst about almost single-handedly being responsible for disassembling Data! For a scene or two.

But that's something that would carry out over TNG's entire run, people go through hell and just sorta get over it before the credits roll. Aside from Picard and the Borg (just to go off on a tangent for a bit). I think the Borg was always sort of percolating underneath his skin anyway. "I, Borg" has some great delayed Picard angst about it ("Arrange to feed it" I think sez a lot about how he felt and check out how creepily and easily Picard slips into his "Locutus" impersonation with Hugh). This also comes out in Picard in "First Contact" but I think is earned - it's his first full-on confrontation with The Borg since "Best of Both Worlds" (once again, the Descent borg don't really count and the one Descent Borg dismisses Picard outright anyway). Also "First Contact" establishes that Picard has the collective nattering away in his freakin' skull. So he's a bit testy. Much like "Measure" , I've also seen complaints levelled against "First Contact" for tossing out Picard's characterization for the sake of the story. But A) I think it works really, really well and you get so much cool stuff out of it B) there is enough there established that I can buy that "First Contact" would lead to Picard going a little Ahab-y for a few hours or so. Basically, if you add up all of the pieces it makes Picard's final confrontation with the Borg Queen, and that freakin ending snap of her robot spine, kind of cathartic.

 

So you're saying there's a chance?

 

As bad as Threshold is, it's fairly decent body horror. 5 year old me was scared ****less when it first aired.

 

But Picard is a human and Data is an android. Thus that kind of comparison is flawed. You can shut off the transporters, phasers, turbolifts, even the computer and it would still qualify as not alive. The closest analogy is Starfleet's computer A.I. which is not alive and can be shut down with a few command strokes.

 

Starfleet created the computer. It did not create Data. That's where the whole 'data is property' element instantly falls down. Thus your comparison is flawed

 

To expand, the whole debate about 'salvage' should have been addressed. Assuming the ridiculous premise that Data is an object, then the argument about ownership should have been raised.

 

I believe Madoxx's case was based on the prescient setting case of "Finders v Keepers".

 

I'm not sure if I'll get that Star Trek / Planet of the Apes crossover but this cover is all kinds of awesome:

 

Could the Holodeck be used for sexual purposes?

As in I am very surprised people on the Enterprise who visited Counsellor Troi in her tight bodysuit, didn't immediately pop over to the Holodeck to have relations with her!

Would it be used for orgies with your crush? Imagine four Deanna's or ten Aayla Secura's in there waiting for you..

 

You mean like Quark's pornographic Kira hologram or Barclay's holodeck weirdness.

 

Finished season 2. Measure of a Man is still the worst ever episode, and whilst the courtroom elements weren't as bad as I remembered, there's a ridiculously galling moment at the start which I'd completely forgotten.

Maddox was the SOLE person to reject Data's entry to Starfleet because he wasn't sentient. However, Starfleet clearly overruled him, and so his status as a sentient being has already been ratified by Starfleet!

The other thing I've learned from season 2 is that Peak Performance is possibly the greatest episode ever made. Ever. Of anything. Ever.

 

If I remember correctly, wasn't it against regs to make holodeck versions of your crew mates in this way? I think Riker says something along those lines in the Barclay episode. It's been a while so I'm not quite sure. Or maybe it was just an Enterprise regulation. Quark certainly had a lot more leeway in regards to his holosuite programs, but then again DS9 technically belonged to Bajor, so the regs obviously were different.

 

No, Riker claims that there's a rule against it. He is told there isn't, then he says "Well, there ought to be"

 

Barklay was not weird!

 

There would be quite an unpleasant "splosh" when you said "Computer, end programme."

 

Mister Broccoli

 

Oh yes, that's right.

 

Measure of a Man really rankled my nerves originally but being a morality play is something I love about Star Trek.

 

Yes. I'll be honest, how could one resist a Deanna Troi orgy program? Imagine this waiting for you when the doors open...