Amph [NERRRD] Observations, rhetorical questions, comments & 50 Years of Star Trek (General Thread)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    [IMG]

    Fan image scaling all the Eaglemoss Enterprises (plus Defiant, Voyager, a Saturn V & a shuttle)l; minus the NX Refit).

    Besides how massive the J is (but it's the future, different mission profile and Drexler prefers to push sci-fi tech further than Trek is willing to go sometimes), what strikes me the most here is the JJprise- now, we've always known it was way bigger than it should be, but usually that criticism stems from a comparison to it being bigger than the D.

    But I what I find interesting here is comparing it to the C. If we ignore the nacelles (since those generally get smaller over time across each design's generations), the ship itself is actually about the same size as the C.

    Even though that doesn't eliminate the size criticism, it does make the (post-Kelvin) tech scale jump a little more plausible in that context ("it skips from OG to the C's size) than the initial one ("it skips from OG to the D/E's size"). Especially since they were still wearing late-era TOS uniforms aboard the C, which doesn't make it feel so distant.
  2. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 5
    I think tonight is the repeat of the Fathom Events presentation of the Director's Cut of "Star Trek II". As I posted in the "Last Movie You've Seen" thread, the special intro/interview with Shatner before the movie was fun. His memory is a bit hazy, but I liked his comments re: "Star Trek V" and "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN!".
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Yeah, it was a fun interview. Shatner balanced his interest and aloofness about it well and handled the interviewer' geeking out well, while the interviewer handled correcting Shatner well when he confused which movie a story was about.
    Kenneth Morgan likes this.
  4. Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, I know that was what they were going for. It still felt kinda disappointing though...especially after all those internet memes I saw about "you will be assimilated" and "resistance is futile". I think the Borg in that episode came off more as this force of nature rather than a malicious entity, and that made them less scary.
  5. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 7
    That came later after First Contact, where the Borg kind got retooled from being a kind of force of nature into invnicible techno-zombies.
    Sarge likes this.
  6. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 6
    First Contact was a good movie, but it was also the beginning of the end for the Borg as an irresistible force. IMO, it was a mistake to give them a queen. She was a worthwhile target, a weak point in the Collective, which previously had none.
    TX-20, Darth Caliban and CT-867-5309 like this.
  7. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 7
    I didn't really have an issue with the Collective having a queen. They are sort of modelled on a bee hive or an ant colony, after all, and both bees and ants have a queen, so it sort of makes sense they would have a leader. Also, they cIearly cooked up the Queen as a foil for Data and then resurrected the idea a foil for Seven. I think the way that maybe could have been done differently and possibly made her more unpredictable would have been to say that every drone is given a set of subroutines that lets it turn into the Queen as a given situation requires, rather than the Collective a distinct and recognizable leader that could be targeted by the Collective's enemies.
  8. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 6
    If it is a Collective consciousness, doesn't something have to be driving that collective? Who is gonna tell that Borg to go fix that flapping panel or whatever? The way I sees it is The Queen is literally the entire collective consciousness housed in a single individual (that's why her head is so big!). What she flat out states in the movie anyway, "You imply a disparity where none exists. I am the Collective."
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Sep 13, 2017
    Juliet316 likes this.
  9. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 7
    That was also the whole point of Locutus in BOBW as well, the entire Collective represented in a single individual.
    Juliet316 and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  10. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 6
    Yeah, basically if you look at all the TNG Borg episodes, aside from "Q-Who" where the Borg are this unstoppable Force that Q is using to teach Picard a lesson, each TNG Borg apperance individualizes them in some way. BoBW Part 1 they're still in unstoppable horde mode but we get the Locutus twist (and, frankly, the best goddamn cliffhanger Star Trek is ever going to have), Part 2 is all Locutus. I, Borg it's Hugh. and the final TNG Borg ep is "Descent" where they're all individuals anyway.
  11. PCCViking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2014
    star 9
    It's similar to the Killiks in the Dark Nest Trilogy. If Raynar Thul was the Locutus equivalent, then Lomi Plo was the Borg Queen equivalent, although more mysterious and harder to deal with.
    The2ndQuest likes this.
  12. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    No. Literally no.


    No, it was not the point of Locutus. The point of Locutus was to better facilitate humanity's assimilation. He was used to communicate to humanity, he wasn't needed to run the collective. He was a face man.
  13. Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Eh, communicate with humanity? Like, to convince them to join the Borg? Does that ever work for the Borg? How many species have they encountered that said "hell yeah, we're gonna let them add our technological and biological distinctiveness to theirs"?
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Sep 13, 2017
  14. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    Do they every explain the origins of the Borg?
  15. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 7
    Star Trek: Destiny does. Destiny also ends the Borg once and for all.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    A video game also provides an alternate origin tying into V'ger.
  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    A video game also provides an alternate origin tying into V'ger.
  18. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    Ah I see. So nothing is ever explained in the shows?
  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 10

    I thought that was the Kirk / Shatner novels?
  20. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Just something vague the Queen says at some point (First Contact, I think) about how they were once like humans. That's all we need. They were a purely biological race that got carried away with improving themselves through technology. It works into their being an anti-Federation (the Dominion is also an anti-Federation).
    TX-20 and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  21. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 7
    That was in The Return, which partially attributed the Borg to Spock's mind meld with V'ger.
  22. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    Oh yeah, I forgot about that line! I guess it's best to leave it at that and not make a prequel trilogy explaining their origins.
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6


    Yeah, pretty much.

    Regardless of the likelihood of success, the Borg themselves said that this was his purpose.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Sep 13, 2017
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Probably both- there are cut scene videos of the Borg Queen (I think) narrating their origins floating around which I assumed were from a game.

    The Nero comic series also uses that connection to have V'ger seek out the Narada (or was it vice versa?) because of the Borg tech the Romulans installed on the Narada.

    EDIT- Here it is, from Star Trek Legacy.:

    Last edited by The2ndQuest, Sep 13, 2017
  25. Darth Caliban Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2015
    star 4
    First Contact was a good movie, but it destroyed everything that was fascinating about the Borg for me.
    Sarge likes this.