Amph “So Say We All.” - The Battlestar Galactica Discussion Thread

I think I would have preferred a more realistic explanation. Miscarriages sometimes just "happen" and there's nothing you can do about it or explain it.

I actually thought it would be great if Liam had been born and he and Hera started a family one day.

 

Remember that Cavil's goal wasn't just to wipe out humanity, but to first get the Final Five to admit he was better than humanity. That, and it's made a point that Cavil is very narrow-minded, he tends to miss how his plans could go wrong. He doesn't factor in any emotion whatsoever, and just runs on pure logic.

 

Really? I'd never heard of that.

 

Well, they actually SAY it in the last episode.

 

I just remember that bizarre sequence with him chasing a bird around the kitchen.

 

You mean Six?

 

Could be? I have a pretty dim memory of it, and I disliked both Sex Robot and Starbucks equally so its more than plausible.

 

I was joking.

Bird = girl

 

epic: I think the points you make are actually a pretty good summary of the biggest complaints.

As for the whole opera house vision, RDM talked about it in the podcast to the finale, essentially they really weren't going to use it at all anymore, but a writer came up with what we saw at a very late stage. I agree that it's a bi weak (20 meters).

 

but this change of heart by the Sixes and Eights occurred later -- they were very much involved with the nuking of Caprica and the killing of pretty much all of humanity. they weren't really interested in coverting anyone at that point. it still doesn't explain the need to pointlessly chase them, particularly when they had sleeper agents.

the initial plan of nuking Caprica didn't involve there being any survivors at all -- Galactica surviving was an abberation due to its non-networked system etc. so the initial plan would have involved the final 5 all dying too. i don't see there being any room for this idea that he wanted the final 5's acknoweldgment of his superiority. perhaps that came later, but by then it's beyond my original point.

 

Cavil helped Ellen onto the Fleet, onto the Rising Star.

Him wanting to destroy humanity was a side effect of him not receiving the acknowledgement he felt he deserved. The Final Five seemed to love humanity, and want to make the Cylons more like them, and Cavil couldn't understand why.

Thus his plan was to erase the memories of the Final Five and make them see how miserable being a human was. Unfortunately for Cavil, this just seemed to further their love of humanity, and so he chose to destroy it, whilst hoping that demonstrating their complete superiority would show the Final Five just how much better the Cylons, and him, were.

So, yes, Galactica survived because Adama didn't network the system, but Cavil's goals were expanded upon as the series finished. Don't know if you've seen it, but they did a movie called "The Plan" which follows two Cavil models and the Final Five through the first two seasons, fixing some errors and solving some mysteries, while giving you a real insight into Cavil's mindset. I recommend it if you missed it.

 

Cavil helped Ellen, yes, but he couldn't have known that the Chief and Tigh would survive on an un-networked Galactica, and he couldn't have guarenteed that Tory and Anders would survive the nuclear blast. he could demonstrate his superiority by killing all of humanity, sure, including most likely the final 5 (4 not including Ellen - although given they didn't even know they were Cylons at the time, it's not really much of a point to be made).. but it's hardly going to get them to admit to his superiority which you originally stated.

 

Cavil didn't plan for any of the Final Five to survive -- their bodies were supposed to be destroyed in the attack, with them then downloading into new bodies, at which point they would remember who they really were and acknowledge that Cavill was right about humanity. It's really just a coincidence that 4 of the 5 survived. Ellen probably would have died in the aftermath of the attack except a Cavill copy helps her get on one of the last shuttles to escape. He plants her on the Rising Star, and then pretends to be a priest on Galactica (the one who Tyrol gives his confession to, and then outs as a Cylon).

Also, it's pretty clear that his plan was to destroy humanity from the get go (ie when he tricked the 5 and planted them in the Colonies, also destroying #7's line). He doesn't realize they haven't learned the lesson he wants them to until he meets Ellen just as the attack is about to begin.

EDIT: The Plan definitely expands on everything, and is worth watching (even if it's not all tat great overall). I think No Exit actually explains everything well enough, though.

 

exactly.

so he should have been content with basically wiping out all of humanity, and left the Galactica to destroy itself. no need to run around the galaxy after it. they just took over Caprica, he's got a whole planet to re-build/develop under Cylon rule. much more interesting that chasing after a few random ships.

in fact it would have highlighted his case: leave 40k humans alone on a ship and see what happens: if he was right about humanity, they would inevitably descend into some kind of anarchy and destroy themselves. perfect.

 

The Final Five weren't originally supposed to be Cylons.

 

Wasn't Bryan Singer going to make a reboot movie of the show?

 

Yes indeedy. Cept it's been delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed.

 

I agree with the last sentence, it certainly would have proved him right and Ellen wrong, but

1. 2-3 of the final five were in the fleet, he needed to destroy it for them to resurrect
2. He's not the type to be content. He clearly views it as his mission to kill every last human, his sense of "justice" demands it.

 

i agree he wouldn't have been content just letting them survive forever, but my argument is there were smarter, more logical ways of doing so than wasting resources chasing them around the universe. as i say, they had Boomer as a sleeper. hell, the priest Cavil was already on board so he could have always killed himself and resurrected once he knew they had settled on a particular planet.

edit: I guess they could only resurrect if there was a ship nearby. but whatever, I'm sure a highly advanced species could figure some way of communicating the whereabouts of Galactica at a later stage. some kind of tracking device or something.

 

That's one thing you miss if you don't watch The Plan -- there are more sleepers than just Boomer, and all are working to sabotage the Fleet. Boomer's shooting of Adama was planned by the Cavill in the fleet.

EDIT: Alot of this is really dependent on numbers, which you mention in your OP. Early on it seems like there are countless basestars, yet there aren't many at the Colony in the Finale. If their numbers are so overwhelming as it seems at first, there really isn't much harm in continuing aggressive pursuit, since you have such overwhelming numbers that the loss of a few basestars, or even resurrection ships, won't matter. Factor in also that Cavill is incredibly overconfident.

So what happened to all those basestars? Quite a few were destroyed by Galactica and Pegasus, and probably even more were destroyed in the Cylon Civil War. Still, I agree that the numbers don't quite add up.

 

I actually wouldn't mind a more action oriented approach that does away with the religion aspect, but since the ST was announced and the potential of a Mass Effect movie series becoming more and more imminent, I say wait a couple of decades.

 

I liked the sense of loneliness in the first season and how they were always being pursued and having to engage the cylons while fighting a retreat. As well as the dwindling resources etc.

 

Hello If you live in England you can see battlestar galatica on Mondays at 9.00pm on channel 11 pick tv. I watched episode 1 and was a little confused and then found out there's a prequel to the series that they didn't show. Tonight is episode 2. so I want people to discuss it as none of my friends watched it. but no spoilers till after the episode has aired please here is the list of episode we can discuss:
misaneriaes.
Episdoe 1