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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga New canon inconsistencies: lightsabers

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by BadCane, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I hope he didn't kill anyone I know for it...
     
  2. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 6, 2014
    Cool, thanks for the info! :)
     
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  3. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 3, 2015

    Well, by that logic, all of this is fiction, especially lightsabers, and by extension Star Wars doesn't matter. I don't think the movies will ever contradict or even explore in detail how they work, since it really doesn't matter to the story, so we're all welcome to adopt our own headcanon about them.
     
  4. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    ^^ Bob Brown is renowned for being somebody who meticulously researched the possible workings of the lightsaber. While I'm admittedly not that much into lightsabres, one of his lessons stuck with me: While it is nearly impossible to define how a lightsaber works, the only way is to eliminate first what it is not (and from personal correspondence I can say that he dislikes the crystal theory).

    For all I know a lightsaber blade is merely an energy field that "traps" "dark" "matter" (which consists of nine parts for every one part of substance in the universe) and makes it visible and usable.

    Of course, since "dark matter" does exactly do the same as the Force (i.e. holds the galaxy together) I now realize that the blade of a lightsaber might actually be a visual manifestation of the Force which would then give the term "Force user" a delicious but ambiguous connotation. ;)
     
  5. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    To be fair, so is ANH, but nobody makes a big fuss about that. It's called retroactive continuity.

    Anyway, another inconsistency is that in TFA, on Skywalker's Lightsaber, the blade length adjust is used as the activator rather than the activation matrix (the box on the side). Yet, in the visual dictionary, all parts are labeled as they should be. The blade length adjust is just that, and not the activator. The activation matrix is labeled as the activator.
     
  6. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 25, 2013
    I may be remembering incorrectly, as I still need to see it a few more times in theatres, but I believe that actually matches up with the "new way" of how to activate a saber

    The OT had sabers activated by that box thing on the side, while in the PT it seems they had red button things. With the ST - at least the crossguard saber for sure - there's a little thing you push up near the top of the hilt. Perhaps they were trying to imitate that motion with the Skywalker saber?
     
  7. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Okay then, I'm a nobody. I think rather than "retroactive continuity" the Orwellian description of "Doublethink" would be more appropriate and accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
     
  8. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    A couple things.

    First, we don't know that all lightsaber crystals are from Ilum. In a databank entry for the Finalizer in TFA, it is said that kyber crystals have been mined in the Unknown Regions. So we don't know if kyber crystals elsewhere would still tune to blue or green, or if those are just Ilum colors. Yellow and purple could be mined elsewhere for all we know (to my knowledge there is nothing to confirm or deny this).

    Also, I think it was Dave Filoni that had said that when it came to building a Jedi's first lightsaber, the trial that the younglings undergo in TCW is not something that would be repeated. I.E. when Anakin's lightsaber is destroyed in AOTC, he doesn't need to make the trip out to Ilum and fetch another and go through that trial all over again. I don't recall when/where this was said, but I am almost positive someone had said that because only a single crystal forms that link to the youngling, it's not a trial that can really be repeated. So for instance, Agen Kolar has a green lightsaber in AOTC, but blue in ROTS. If only his first crystal had attuned to the Living Force around him, then any subsequent crystals he used may have come from recycled crystals from fallen Jedi. Such that if Agen Kolar lost/broke his lightsaber, he could get another crystal right at the Jedi Temple, rather than running out to Ilum.

    I forget the guy's name, but there is an old Jedi in TCW that has a white lightsaber, and Ahsoka has two white lightsabers. Filoni says this is to show her as being unaffiliated with either the Jedi or Sith. This creates a situation in which Ahsoka was running around with two sabers in TCW whose crystals had taken a green hue. But now in Rebels she has two new crystals that attuned to her as white.

    There are several possibilities. They might have attuned to her differently because the Living Force insider of her has changed, they might be white because she got them from somewhere other than Ilum and crystals there can come in different colors, or maybe she used crystals that had already attuned to someone else. Or for all we know the crystals are still green but she can somehow modify the expressed color by other means. We don't know.

    I know that TCW established that crystals are colorless and attune to the Jedi when they are acquired, however, in reality I don't think the creators are really keeping this in mind when they tell their stories. Because even the Death Star super laser is powered by kyber crystals, and they were all green and fired green beams. One would think that if non-Force using Imperials are acquiring these crystals, then they should remain colorless. And that if they attuned to a powerful Dark Side individual, the implication is that they would turn red. But in a crystal cave, only one crystal attuned to each youngling, so even then, the odds of this one crystal attuning to Palpatine or an Inquisitor are slim.

    I don't think you can think too hard about it.
     
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  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    The OT novelizations describe Palpatine as a figurehead, they have Tagge get Force-choked, they describe Yoda as blue, they say that Owen Lars is Obi-Wan's brother, etc. Nobody refers to the OT novelizations as if they were canon. Hidalgo's not the only one who confirmed that they're not canon. The entirety of Story Group said that they're not canon at celebration. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that they're canon.
    Did you really just compare a fictional universe getting retconned to Orwellian regimes?
     
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  10. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    Oh, wait, I said OT novelizations. I meant to say PT novelizations.
     
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  11. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    George Lucas did:

    Gospel, or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. (1994)

    G-canon is George Lucas canon: Considered absolute canon, it includes Episodes I–VII (the most recently released versions), and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the scripts, filmed deleted scenes, film novelizations, reference books, radio plays, and other primary sources are also G-canon when not in contradiction with the released films. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. (2000)

    There's your solution to the inconsistencies you listed. If they contradict the films they are not canon, but everything else that helps to fill in blanks is.

    I find it amusing how somebody who wasn't even born yet when the OT was made, could possibly "confirm" that George Lucas is wrong. Are you sure your statement is really accurate? Sounds to me like a very lame excuse not to research the original materials at all for further clues and information (which is my major issue with WEG and others but then again, where is Mr. Hidalgo actually coming from...?)

    Did you really just compare a fictional universe getting retconned to Orwellian regimes?[/quote]

    Yes, "retroactive continuity" sounds to me like sugarcoating a methodology I find extremely troublesome. It has the tendency to open doors where concepts and ideas are changed at the expense of original creators and contributors which are ultimately made to look like these didn't know what they were doing. When it comes at the expense of the people that were there first, then it's an ethical problem and moral issue to me, but way too many people, IMHO, think it's okay.

    With that kind of mindset, when history starts getting erased on behalf of the new, we are getting closer and faster to the nightmare of 1984.
     
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  12. BadCane

    BadCane Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2015

    It's Tera Sinube. You're right, his saber is indeed white.

    [​IMG]

    Great post.
     
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  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    New versions of the novelizations are being written to match up to the films more closely, but you can still rely on the older material so long as it isn't something that is completely contradicted. Such as how Palpatine was originally written in the intro to ANH, changes in names and saber colors, etc. That's always been consistent since the 90's.

    The Darksaber and Kylo's saber would sound differently because they are different weapons from the traditional Jedi and Sith sabers. Even Ezra, Ahsoka and the Inquisitors sabers sound different. As to Anakin's saber, remember that in AOTC and ROTS, as well as in TCW, that the Jedi and Sith sabers were interchanged with each other when ignited.







     
  14. TheAltureus

    TheAltureus Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 20, 2013
    There's only one inconsistency I can think of...

    Why was Anakin's lightsaber color still blue after he joined Sidious, became Darth Vader, and up until he dueled Obi-Wan?
    He was basically a Sith by then, and his lightsaber should have bled red to reflect that change.
     
  15. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    No, it shouldn't. Lightsabers don't change color.
     
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  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    If you're a darksider, you have to take the crystal out first - "attune yourself" to it (causing it to go red - "bleeding") and then reassemble it, for it to change.
     
  17. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016

    Why does a saber need to change colour though? What's the point (in universe)?
     
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    It doesn't. It needs a crystal to work. The color comes from the crystal and how one connects with it through the Force before it's in the lightsaber.
     
  19. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    What's the point?

    Does this apply to the Death Star laser as well?
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Of what? It's how it works.

    No. The attunement through the Force is only required for the construction of a lightsaber. The average Joe or a droid can't build one.
     
  21. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    What is the purpose of the colour change?

    [/quote]

    But lasers get their colour from the crystal that's used. I can understand the force altering a crystal and therefor its laser and by extension the blade.

    Does that mean all green lasers from Kybers are default green until they are "attuned"?
     
  22. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    The color is a consequence of one's connection with the crystal through the Force. If the connection is made naturally and harmoniously, once you put the crystal in the lightsaber you either get a green or blue blade. If the connection is forced, you get red.

    According to the new EU, a red crystal can be "healed" from that oppressive connection, making the blade white. But that's a separate process.

    Maybe, maybe not. The reason for why a kyber crystal was used on the Death Star is for its energy.

    The only thing the Death Star laser and a lightsaber have in common is that they both use a kyber crystal as a source for its power.

    For a lightsaber, the blade's color results from how a person connected with the crystal through the Force (something that is not required for the Death Star, for example). Once the connection is established, the crystal doesn't change color.

    We don't know how the Death Star laser works other than it's not the same as a lightsaber.

    No. Kyber crystals are colorless until a connection is made.
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    As noted, it is a consequence of how the Sith and dark side adepts work. It is symbolic of how the Sith aren't in harmony with the Force and try to control the Force to do what they want. They disrupt the balance to weaken and kill the Jedi, but also to become its master. They force their sabers to work a certain way when constructed and as a result, we get the red blade. If the crystal is flawed, then the blade is flawed and unless properly taken care of, the saber will short out and an injury could take place.
     
  24. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Sorry, but I'll never buy into the whole "attuning the crystal" BS. Sure, I guess it's cannon now (loosely), but it still just sounds dumb to me.
     
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  25. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    So green sabers are prepared for different purposes from blue ones?