New Emperor Scene in TESB

I just got the DVDs for Christmas. I had heard about McDiarmind replacing that other Emperor in TESB and was excited to see the new scene, but after seeing it I am sort of dissapointed. The new dialogue makes no sense. Why does Vader say "How is that possible?" when from the beginning of the film we know that Vader knows about Luke("I'm sure Skywalker is with them")

I hate to say it but I kind of miss that old creepy looking Emperor.

 

People explain it away by saying Vader was trying to bluff Palpatine.

It's stupid, of course.

The old scene, old Emperor, and old dialouge, were better.

 

He is a Sith Lord with his own agenda.
Sith lords are liars who are always stabbing each other in the back.

-Seldon

 

Except Vader still follows Palpatine to the end.

It just makes Vader look like an idiot.

One more scene destroyed.

 

Long live the DVD editions! Ian McDiarmid is a genius - the more screentime for him, the better!

 

Another thing.

What's the significance of the Emperor's "Search your feelings Vader, you know it to be true" line? Obviously we know Vader says this to Luke. So is this big with the Sith, "search your feelings"?, or was Vader ripping off his master with that line to Luke?

 

Vader is just lying to Palpatine. He is hiding this. That was the case in the original scene and hasn't changed since then. It only has become more obvious. At the end of ESB, Vader clearly says that he wants Luke to overthrow Palpatine.

Anyway, the scene adds much more tension between Vader & Palpatine's "relationship".

Oh... and it's very likely the "how is this possible?" line will be explained in Eps.III.

Two more things:
1) The changes will make sense, just wait till May 2005.

2) Watch the scene some more times and after some months, rewatch the original scene. It'll be very clear that the new one is far superior in any way. Just give it some time.

So is this big with the Sith, "search your feelings"?, or was Vader ripping off his master with that line to Luke?

AOTC made it clear that Anakin likes to use Palpatine from time to time.

"I see you becoming the most powerful of all the Jedi" -> "Someday, I'll be the most powerful Jedi"

 

This question should be under the FAQ list. It's not hard to understand.

 

Except it's stupid, because he had no reason to say it. He can just as easily follow his agenda of turning Luke to the DS and killing Palpatine. It made more sense when VADER suggested it, instead of him acting like a fool and trying to lie to his Sith master.

And confusing the audience while doing it.

It's like the Han-Jabba exchange in ANH. Pointless.

 

I have not yet seen the DVD version of Episode V, nor listened to the edited sequence on the Internet. Thus, I can't comment on the changed dialogue. However, I have seen the photos comparing the theatrical release and Special Edition version with the DVD version of Palpatine in Episode V, and I must say it is all too clear that Ian McDiarmid, the actor who plays Palpatine in each film but Episode IV, in which he doesn't appear, is a much, much better choice than a woman with the eyes of a chimpanzee.

 

Wasn't the person that played the old emperor in the projector a woman? Somewhere I've heard that...

 

Yep, but it still looks better in the old version.

 

IN your opinion.

 

I still don't see why the new dialogue would be confusing. His feelings about having a son are not as clear as he would pretend to his master. That's consistent with ROTJ.

The only issue that it raises for me is that at the beginning of the film, Vader openly mentions his search for Skywalker in front of his bridge crew.

This suggests that he trusts his bridge crew with information that could get him in big trouble with the Emperor, if he was caught in a lie.

 

How is this confusing? He's lying to Palpatine about Luke, obviously, but he may also still be a bit wary himself over the prospect of having a son. If ROTS comes out and it winds up that Anakin was aware of the pregnancy but not the birth, it could be that he thought his children were dead and is mulling over how they could exist. But more importantly, what everyone else said. He's playing the fool to throw the emperor off on how much this discovery means to Vader.

While I like Ian better as the face, I did like the facial acting of the original a bit better. There was something about the body language that the original actress gave to the role that was very eerie.


The only issue that it raises for me is that at the beginning of the film, Vader openly mentions his search for Skywalker in front of his bridge crew.

This suggests that he trusts his bridge crew with information that could get him in big trouble with the Emperor, if he was caught in a lie.

I always assumed the everyone was on the same basis of knowledge regarding Luke, save for what the Sith knew about him being a Force user. After all, the guy who destroyed the Death Star wouldn't remain anonymous for very long, especially with his enemies. Otherwise, why would it seem like a lie? This is the guy who ruined one of the emperor's little "toys." Anyone would want him dead. I always assumed that was just us seeing the emperor finally speaking with Vader about the issue, especially regarding his Force training. (If you think about it, ESB would have been around the time when Luke really started to send out Force waves, given his training and emerging abilities.) Additionally, the universe is a big, fat, grand place, and "Skywalker" is doubtful to be singular to just one family. I always assumed Vader just pretended he didn't know Luke was his son when the emperor spoke about it.

 

Exactly. EVERYONE knows who Luke Skywalker is. According to the opening scroll, Vader's actively searching for him. And he blurts out in front of his crew that Skywalker is on Hoth.

Obviously, Vader knows. So that line is stupid. Palpatine doesn't live in a cave with his ears plugged up.

The old dialouge fits much better, because it's VADER who suggest Luke be turned to the Dark Side.

 

It still is Vader who suggests that Luke should be turned to the dark side. The new dialogue doesn't mess anything up, Vader is trying to hide his intentions to turn Skywalker and overthrow the Emperor. Emperor thinks the idea is good because he could try to get Vader eliminated and take on Luke as his new apprentice. They are both trying to eliminate eachother behind eachothers back, thats what Sith do.

 

Ian replacing the Monkey-woman is an exellent idea. I couldnt have imaged in a million years that it could be done, and I not like it. Lucas is an expert at this. The following is a quote from my post in the DVDchanges thread.

"The unessassary alter to Vader and Palps diolog. It sounds really forced and we already know who destroyed the deathstar. The re-hashing of "you will know it to be true" takes the wind out of an otherwise original line. The previous exchange had just the right mystery balance showing that Vader may feel or know something the Emperor doesnt."-NeoBaggins

The word tweaking bends the aspects of Vader and his son over to Palpatine. It gives Palptine control where before he had none. It no longer looks like Vader is keeping something from him, but being updated on things he didnt know. It was bad enough seeeing Vader kneel to someone else, but now he is not only kneeling before this guy but is downright stupid. With this altered diolog I expect Vader to go "Uh Duyee, paw. YA MEAN, REALLY??"

 

Yeah, but wouldn't Vader be "Paw"?

 

<b> The new dialogue was unneccesary and obviously confuses a decent portion of the audience, but it doesn't bother me so much as the severe gutting of the scene's tone and presence.</b> - The2ndQuest

Not to me. I think the new scene is much darker than the original scene. Mainly due to it becoming more obvious that Vader wants to kill the Emperor.

 

I liked the way the scene was done originally. I am not a fan of the changes Lucas made to the films on the DVDs.

 

I never really took Vader's meaning when speaking with Palps to be a lie. I just took it to mean Vader hasn't had a chance to talk with his master about Luke yet.
Haven't you guys had a boss tell you to do something you were already in the middle of doing simply because the two of you haven't talked about it yet but both knew it needed to be done?
This is what I get from the new scene. Vader knows about Luke and has been chasing him, for the Empire and maybe his own purposes (I'm still not convinced he'd been plotting against the emporer, what he said to Luke later might just bait him), Palpatine figures out Luke is a force user and calls Vader up to talk to him about it then. Vader is asking "How could this be possible.", because they haven't talked about Luke together yet and hoped Palpatine knew how in the world he could have a son.