BTS New info regarding Midiclorian debate: GL initially felt that anyone could learn the Force

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by grimlockbedi, May 25, 2013.

  1. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Just read this excerpt from Rinzler's upcoming "Making of ROTJ" book (the discussion below is circa 1981):

    Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
    Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
    Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
    Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

    From:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html

    This seems to back up those who feel that the introduction of midiclorians represented a fundamental shift in the way the Force was presented and perceived (I am in this camp).

    Back them, GL himself thought that "anyone could do it".
  2. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
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    May 20, 2008
    star 8
    If everyone could use the Force, then everyone could be super.

    And then no one would be. ;)
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  3. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Well, anyone could access it. You had to believe and train very hard to get good at it (something most would not follow through on)... but I hear you.
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  4. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I've never liked genetically-determined magic systems in fantasy - they've always carried an elitist feeling. The same principle holds here, I think. So I would have preferred this idea.
  5. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Yes - I very much disliked the genetic aspect that was introduced.
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    Whatever discussions took place in 1981, we still got a film in 1983 which made no mention of this, and which in fact implied otherwise, focusing on the transmission of Force ability in a family bloodline.

    In the same transcript Lucas goes on to say "the Skywalker line is very strong with the Force", so although he claims everybody can use it, in the same conversation it comes out that some ( in a specific lineage ) are stronger with it than others.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, May 25, 2013
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  7. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2006
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    I assume the conversation happened during the planning stages of ROTJ. I wonder if the book will discuss a change of approach (in line with what is hinted at onscreen), or show that GL maintained that position all the way up until TPM.
  8. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yep. It still works in the story.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    In the EU, even clones were able to participate in a basic exercise known as Jedi Flow.
  10. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I dimsiss it as unfnished work. The idea that anyone can do it is bogus because we are not talking about simply lifting weights, or martial arts, or art, or driving. It's super powers. It's telekinesis, mind control, mind reading, lightning bolts, healing powers, and so on. The Force is far too useful to not be used by everyone after so many centuries of knowledge of its existence in an educated and galaxy spanning civilization.

    Before midiclorians i never thought Han Solo was gonna be a Jedi under any condition. Nor Chewbacca, nor Lando. GL adding in a genetic factor changed nothing in this regard. You either have it or you don't.

    EDIT: and it just occured to me that all living things in SW have midis, but some have a hgiher count than others and the Force will come easier to them. So maybe Solo could become a Force user, but it would take a century of his life or something to lift a rock.
    Last edited by VadersLaMent, May 25, 2013
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  11. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2006
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  12. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Lucas: Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.
    Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?
    Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
    Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.
    Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.
    Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?
    Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, May 25, 2013
  13. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    I hear you Arawn. He's a flip-flopper.

    By the way - "In Soviet Russia, Force uses YOU!" - hysterical! [face_laugh]
  14. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    It was always clear that the force was portrayed in a very different light in the PT.

    Yoda in Empire is a man who clearly has never heard of force bacteria
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  15. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Watching all six movies, it's clear to me that midis aren't the only factor in the ability to use The Force. There is also training and believing. If it was all a matter of midis, why couldn't Luke lift the X-Wing?
  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    At the time Empire was made, it wasn't about midis at all. Which is the point.
  17. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    This is exactly why using the "Lucas said it" argument to support an interpretive theory is useless, and why I avoid citing the artist's intention in general.

    These types of statements and interviews provide interesting insight into the artistic process, but when interpreting a work I'm only interested in the text itself.
  18. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    That's true. Whether a given Lucas quote supports or goes against a person's given argument at the time, it's always important to remember this, "he says lots of things!"

    I don't think he sees the story the same way from day to day, let alone year to year
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, May 25, 2013
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  19. LunarMoth Force Ghost

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    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    If unfinished work counts, I wanna see Solo use his gills in Ep VII.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    And in this case, the text itself never says that everyone can use the Force.

    Yet he's heard of the Force strength in the Skywalker line, I'd wager - if not, why is Luke even there?
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, May 25, 2013
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  21. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Kasdan: I accept it, but I don’t like it.
    Lucas: Well, anyway, Luke’s...

    Fanboys versus Lucas even way back then.
    Last edited by VadersLaMent, May 25, 2013
  22. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    I'm not viewing it as a "smoking gun" per se, but it does lead a lot of credence to the position held by many that back in the day, genetics was not viewed as having a large role in one's ability to use the force. And even though a family could run strong with it (the Skywalkers), it didn't really mean that much in terms of others learning it.

    A modern day analogy: Ken Griffey Sr. and Ken Griffey Jr. are both phenomenal baseball players - i.e., "baseball runs strong in their family". But that doesn't mean a non-Griffey who trains hard enough and has the will can never play professionally.

    Midiclorians seems to preclude any non-Griffeys from playing (you know what I mean).
    Last edited by grimlockbedi, May 25, 2013
  23. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    Pretty crappy decision on the part of Yoda and Obi-Wan to wait for the Skywalker children to enter the fold if anyone could be trained. They could've begun rebuilding the order years earlier.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They had their social lives to attend to.
  25. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    fixed
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