Lit New Jedi Order filled with poorly thought out characters

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Kyris Cavisek, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    The one thing that bugs me more than anything is the name dropping of Jedi characters that clog up the Jedi Order.
    Living Jedi Knights Appearing 5+ Times who have cemented their spot as reoccuring characters:
    Lowbacca
    Tesar Sabatyne
    Zekk
    Tahiri Veila
    Tekli
    Raynar Thul

    Recient Jedi who have had 5+ Apperances
    Valin Horn (Hopefully will join the above group)
    Jysella Horn (Hopefully will join the above group)
    Jaden Korr (I don't care one way or another, love Kemp's books about him though)
    Seha Dorvald (Only Jedi to really get a master in FotJ, has good back story and potential. Hope to see her join the above group)
    Seff Hellin (Another white male human Jedi, he can be a red shirt with back story sometime)
    Wonetun (Either go with Radd Minker or Wonetun, Brubb is an odd race to have two of them in the Order)
    Izal Waz (Great Character who pops up from time to time. Hopefully will join the above group)
    Doran Sarkin Tainer (Son of a Wraith and a Jedi. One of Allston's favorites. Let's see him join the above group)
    Yaqeel Saav'etu (I'd prefer to see Kolir Hu'lya become a regular)

    Living Jedi Knights Appearing 2-4 Times
    Avinoam Arelis (Interesting but do we need another human male Jedi?)
    Turi Altamik (Red Shirt)
    Tam Azur Jamin (Hasn't been seen since NJO, make him show up so you can kill him off)
    Yantahar Bwau'tu (Part of the Bwau'tu family. Lets see him become a reoccuring Jedi)
    Dordi (Really Denning we need another Barabel)
    Zal (And another Barabel?)
    Wilyem (And another Barabel?)
    Kolir Hu'lya (Her banter with Valin in Fury should earn her a spot on the reoccuring)
    Waxarn Kel: Human Male (Hasn't been seen since NJO but would be cool to see him return)
    Vaala Razelle: Arcona Female (Guarded a door once with Bwau'tu, unless she is romancing Waz she should be a red shirt)
    Sotharis Saar: Chev Male (Anti Slave Supporter, Lots of Future Potential)

    Living Jedi Knights Appearing Once
    Radd Minker: Brubb Male (Red Shirt)
    Sanola Ti: Human Female (Kirana Ti's niece, lets see her stick around. Granted she is human but the Dathomiri and family connections might save her)
    Tiu Zax: Omwati Female (Infiltration with Mara in LotF, had potential, never seen again. Bring her back)

    Reciently promoted with no backstory
    Huli: Arcona
    Rivai
    Jayk: Ryn female
    Ramud: Duros Male

    All should be red shirts

    On a random note at the end of LotF they mention that an apprentice named Derek is manning the Falcons turrets. I dont know why he peaked my interests

    Any thoughts
  2. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    So to recap...
    Here are who I think we should keep in the Order

    Ben Skywalker
    Lowbacca
    Tesar Sabatyne
    Zekk
    Tahiri Veila
    Tekli
    Raynar Thul
    Jaden Korr
    Valin Horn
    Jysella Horn
    Seha Dorvald
    Doran Tainer
    Izal Waz
    Woneton
    Kolir Hu'lya
    Yantahar Bwau'tu
    Waxarn Kel
    Sotharis Saar
    Sanola Ti
    Tiu Zax
    and maybe... Avinoam Arelis

    The rest shouldn't be forgotten let them be saber fodder
  3. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    *Looks over list
    *Doesn't see Kyle Katarn
    *Prays for the soul of Kyris Cavisek, who will most likely die tonight.
  4. Likewater Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Its a result of the unfocused/round robin type wirting. i am suprised it has lasted as long as it did.

    Add in the fact that Luke, Leia and Han take up a large part of the damatis persone along with their progeny and progeny's progeny there isnt much room for Consistant new jedi characters.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  5. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I did not include any of the Jedi Masters, as typically becoming a master denotes achievement within the Order and within the books, ergo Durron, Saba, Horn, Katarn, Ramis, Ti, and Clighal not on the lists. But what is with that Brakktyl yuzzem master?
  6. Likewater Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Tahiri, Jaden Korr, Zekk, lobaccca, Tekli, the Horns and Zekk. Yes the rest should be chucked maybe the Exception being Raynar thul. Make new Consistant apprentices/ and partners to these 7 possibly 8 characters. Weave interconnecting dynamic relationships, with solid personalities. and stick with it.
    Last edited by Likewater, Nov 13, 2012
  7. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I mean there were attempts to flesh out the Horns, Seha Dorvald, Avinoam Arelis, and Sotharis Saar in FotJ. I feel as though a stand alone novel about Arelis and Saar fighting slavers would make an awesome book. Plus a novel about the 10 jedi searching for Mordis or whatever it is called. Have it be like Star by Star where you kill off the majority of the strike force.
  8. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    The Beard accepts no excuses.
    TrakNar likes this.
  9. Trip Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    lol i have no idea who like half these people are
  10. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    See but in the seven you want to keep, all but 2 are human. That is why I would like to see Kolir Hu'lya, Izal Waz, Tiu Zax, and Sotharis Saar stick around as aliens additions. Seha, I like because she is a Jedi who is Ben's age.

    That brings me to my next point. The Solos had YJK and JJK to assemble Lowie, Zekk, Tenel Ka, Raynar, and Tahiri around them (Tekli and Tesar would join later). They came into NJO with a cast of young Jedi apprentices. Ben never got that Jedi Academy feel where he could meet Seha, and countless other Jedi. Imagine his cool alien Jedi friend, a Nautolan or Cerean. Going on small scale adventures, then when LotF or FotJ hits, we already have Ben's generation of Jedi fleshed out and beloved as we feel for Lowie, Zekk, and the rest of the YJK graduates
  11. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Any of them? That is the point. They wrote a book about Mander Zuma. It was ok. But that spot could have went to an established non Skywalker Solo Jedi. Zekk was supposed to get a book but it fell through.
  12. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Since I'm on my tirade. Look at "The Unit" or whatever the Horns, Warv and Saavetu call themselves. We already have a female bothan who has had some witty banter with Valin in Kolir. Stop creating more of the same species same gender Jedi use the ones already in the toy box. If you want an orignal character, take your time find a species that has no representation in the NJO like Ithorian, Gungan, Whippid, Talz, Nautolan, Chiss, Shistaven, Cathar, Lannik, Kel Dor, Selonians, Twi Leks, Zabrak, Verpine, or Pantorans
    TychoCorde likes this.
  13. Likewater Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Why Unless you want a managre just to have a managre?

    these Jedi are just names and species Denniing just tossed outthere as fluff with no purpose or direction.

    Wurth Skidder and Ganner Ryshode and Octa Ramis were a part of Kyps hard line Faction. Ganner eventually went from "Arrogant Kung Fu guy" to moderating force to a Mindset very Close to Jacen some one who was 180 in alignment to Kyps Hardline faction. Wurth Died believing in Kyps hardline ways, even through he did regret his brashness. Octa rejected Kyp when his reckless ness got half his Squadron kill in the wake of his own attack.

    These characters had parts to play of the jedi order, and thus were created with Philosphies, personalities (Less so for Octa), even character arcs, not so for the z-list cannonfodder Denning convatorbelts out. Characters that serve no purpose need to be left by the way side. After all what does any writer have to work with besides a general physical form?
    Last edited by Likewater, Nov 13, 2012
  14. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I have to agree. I love Allstons work. He is the creator of Seha Dorvald, Kolir Hu'lya, Sanola Ti, Doran Tainer, and Tiu Zax. He is also partial to the Horn and Antilles families and writes them well. Even though they are only in a few scenes, Seha became adopted as Octa's apprentice. Sanola kind of just gets named dropped with Kiranna's niece comment. Kolir has some awesome banter with Valin in Fury. Tainer is described as a dwarf wookie and comes up with the plan that gets Zax stuck in the Correllian compound. He seems to share his fathers penchant for trouble and explosive I believe. Zax is insinuated to be a spy Jedi, very cool.

    Would love to see an Allston penned Jedi-X Wing series.
    Valin Horn: Saber Leader
    Kolir Hu'lya: Saber Two
    Sanola Ti: Saber Three
    Tiu Zax: Saber Four
    Seha Dorvald: Saber Five
    Yantahar Bwau'tu: Saber Six
    Doran Tainer: Saber Seven
    Jysella Horn:Saber Eight
    Sabers 9-12 New Characters with additional species or establish characters to thin the order out.

    You could have a Syal Antilles Valin Horn romance plot. A Kolir/Yantahar romance plot, A Doran/Jysella/Sanola Ti love triangle

    I'd include Lowie and Tesar but I feel like with Jaina promoted to Master the two of them have Senior Jedi Knight duties to attend to. Ben and Jaina too busy with Skywalker Solo family stuff to be on the crew.
  15. TrakNar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2011
    star 5
    Wanting more diversity could be further touched upon in the diversity discussion thread. It needs to be steered back on topic anyway.
  16. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I feel like Jedi Academy classes should be 5-10 at max. Instead we get hit with 30 newly knighted Jedi in Apocolypse none with purpose or back story. If a Jedi gets mentioned and isn't well thought out with either a story or a personality, the next author should kill that character off.
  17. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I didn't even include Sannah and the forgotten Jedi Apprentices in my list...
  18. Likewater Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    A character needs to be created with a purpose, a role to fill. It dosent have to be a specific roll, but it has to be more than stand there and get sick. They need motivation, direction. i guess I am repeating myself.

    look at the Comic book Generation X[IMG]

    Each Character had a Purpose, Each played of one or the other is a specific group dyanmic.

    Each had persona quirks and filled tactical spot on the team, personality and power wise. Jubilee was actually the teams tactitian, And Sych the black kid with the rainbow aura the teams mother hen and adaptive heavy hitter.

    the others filled diffrent spots, each had a reason to be on the team. Some running from personal demons. others had dreams of being an X-man, Jubilee felt she couldnt cut it tacticly on the X-men so on and so forth.

    The Jedi recently created arent created with any purpose or dynamic like marvels team books.
    Last edited by Likewater, Nov 13, 2012
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  19. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Great point Likewater allow me to adjust my Jedi X Wing Crew
  20. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Valin Horn: Saber Leader (Team Leader)
    Kolir Hu'lya: Saber Two (Leader's wingmate/techie)
    Sanola Ti: Saber Three (Hand to hand combat)
    Tiu Zax: Saber Four (Infiltration)
    Seha Dorvald: Saber Five (Rookie)
    Yantahar Bwau'tu: Saber Six (Sniper)
    Doran Tainer: Saber Seven (Demolitions Expert/2nd in Command)
    Jysella Horn:Saber Eight (Confidont to her brother/Peace maker)
    Sabers 9-12 New Characters with additional species or establish characters to thin the order out.
  21. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Look at the Strike Team in Fury, Katarn assembles Seha Valin Kolir and Thann to go on a mission. There is a line where Valin reflects that he is the most senior Jedi next to Master Katarn. Seha is the apprentice who is on home turf. Kolir gets to banter with Valin, and Thann is Lightsaber Practice for Jacen so no one else gets hurt.
  22. TrakNar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2011
    star 5
    It seems that everyone has forgotten Ooryl Qrygg. We need more love for the Gand.
  23. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I would love a follow up to I,Jedi with the Horn Family, Booster Terrik, Egelos A'Kla, and Ooryl. Perhaps one of Corran's kids needs to ask his old wing mate for a favor?
  24. TrakNar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2011
    star 5
    "Uncy Ooryl, can you take us to the carnival?"
  25. Likewater Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    I read that book twice, I frankly you might as well be speaking klingon right now. None of thoes Jedi Make an impresssion. Seha is on her home turf? its coruscant where the Jedi have been stationed for years. Personality wise nothing take place from her perspective, she adds not particular flavor to any inteaction.

    Same With Valin and Kolir(Whom I cant even recal) I can recal 1 off characters from Star Trek books i read years ago and havent touched for just as long if their characterization was good.