New Jedi Order - Newbie views

I've recently read the Thrawn Duology and can't really remember a Barbel, but it is possible. Since it has been 12 years or something since I read TTT, It's possible that I forgot about them. Whatever their prior appearance was in, I forgot about it so they were new to me.

Carnage

 

lol

 

Agreed Carnage, I have NO idea why so many people put down the NJO. It was an excellent series, with its High points easily out weighing its lows in the grande Scheme of things. I guees it was the dark plot line, alot of people cant deal with that.

 

The great thing about the NJO was, even if you disliked one particular book and stopped reading halfway through and move on to the next one, because more often than not it was a better book, it would make you go back and read the one you had skipped, just so you could catch up.

Sort of what I did with Dark Journey. I went ahead and read Rebel Dream, which was great, and that made me go back and read Dark Journey (which, IMO, isn't as bad as everyone says it is)

 

Well being a fan of Kyp makes it easier to enjoy Dark JOurney IMO. Otherwise...

 

In defense of Dark Journey, the only area it truly failed was in the characterisation of Jaina (granted, it was the main part of the story). Ta'a Chuume was her conniving self, it showed the inner torment of Tenal Ka being helpless watching her mother die and struggling with the realities of having to abandon her chosen lifestyle to fulfil her duty. Jag's true feelings came to the fore, as well his excellent command skills were shown. Harrar was shown as a 'noble' Yuuzhan Vong, not all consumed by bloodlust as Khalee Lah was - another point - we got a FAMILY of Yuuzhan Vong.

In all, it's not the greatest of the New Jedi Order (considering what surrounded it) but it never had to be. Its by no means the worst of the saga.

 

To me Dark Journey was one of the worst NJO. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was bad. I sort of liked it; Thought it could have been better but still good. Lets face it. Theres a best and worst of nearly everything. It doesnt meant the bestis outstanding and it doesnt mean the worst is horrible either

 

So you didn't mind a court intrigue between an 18yo and 40yo after the pivotal events of Star By Star, Kyptastic?

 

True, I mean, I DID like things about Dark Journey...it brought me around to liking Kyp, but the Ta'a Chuume storyline did nothing for me. Apparently there is more information about the Hapes around....is it from "The Courtship of Princess Leia"?

As someone else said....there usually is a "Best" and a "Worst" in a series (Subject to opinion of course), but I don't find Dark Journey to be Bad, just wasn't as good as the rest of the stuff. For instance, I'm personally a fan of all six Star Wars movies. Episode I is the Worst IMO, but I certainly don't hate it and might go as far to say that I like it.

Carnage

 

Good for you!

 

Not really. In a series as long as the NJO you can't keep going from climax to climax staight away. Dark Journey is like a cooling off period, coming to terms with loss. It also allowed a steady build up to Traitor.

Maybe it was a bit out of place. But considering the characters involved (Ta'a Chuume, Tenniel Djo and so on) it worked better than it would, say, if it had taken place on another aristochrical (is that even a word) planet.

 

dude, dont mean 2 spoil anything, but anakin dies as well, and the new rep wins corascant bak, beats the yu uzhan vong, and discovers a living planet.
nice talkin 2 ya!

 

I agree that I don't understand why so many disliked the series as a whole. I guess it was due to the fact that the Empire was not the enemy, the two Dark Jedi didn't factor in much at the time, how people reacted to Luke's initial indecisiveness and the death of Chewbacca. Especially with his death, which we all know set of a huge controversy. Personally, as an alien invasion story, it worked better than "The Black Fleet Crisis" did with the Yevetha. Thracken Sal-Solo was better utilized here than in "The Corellian Trilogy", which petered out with him after "Assault At Selonia." If I could find one weakness it's that it went longer than it probably should've.

 

I enjoyed Dark Journey. My only problem is that there wasn't really any Dark Journey, Jaina was just having PMS


I enjoyed the Hapes story, even though I didn't know much about the Hapans. I felt that Ta'a Chume came off as (or rather an attempt at being) a Palpatine like character, helping Jaina in her path down the Dark Side (PMS). I just wish this part had been done better. I think the idea is very good an appropriate for the story and well placed. After SbS, of course, you need a break from the epic scale, something small, but still relevant. Yes Hapes seems (and is pretty much) irrelevant at the time, but the point wasn't so much Hapes, as a way to help Jaina down the dark side. Plus the added bonus of getting Tenel Ka in as Queen Mother. I think it was important to have it be very localized, so that as Jaina pused people away, they left Hapes, and were out of the story, leaving Jaina almost alone at the end.

Also, I enjoyed the Trickster angle.

I also enjoyed the budding of the Jaina/Jag romance (soooo much better then Jaina/Kyp ).


I agree however, that Anakin's funeral was underwhelming.

 

Ahhhh, a newcomer that just signed up today. Judging by the fact that you obviously didn't read the thread, you thought you were "Spoiling" something for me, and your absolutely l33t english language abilities I am really looking forward to reading your contributions in future threads.

Carnage

 

mmm I too would like to second Quest's (no pun intended) at that remark

 

I've been around some threads with lots of anti-NJO peopleand they make some not-so-far-featched arguments. Here are some of the things people who hate NJO bring up:

1. NJO is darker than other eras. (Doesn't contain the feel of the movies)
2. Luke is indecisive, which they believe isn't possible for a Jedi Master of the age 40-something.
3. Anakin's and Chewie's death. +Han's reaction (people didn't find it believable, gp figure)
4. Overall there was less action and more thinking/philosophy than in other eras.
5. The stupidity of the New Republic, guys like Fey'lya, in acting against the Vong.
6. Jacen's transformation from "pacifist" to "vergere's best friend"
7. Traitor (a millions different reasons I can't take time to mention)
8. Vergere being a Jedi from the Old Republic (can't believe an old jedi would torture anybody to reach whatever ends they want)
9. The "there is no dark side" theory.
10. Zonama Sekot being the answer to how to get rid of the Vong.
11. The fact that Alpa Red was not used to destroy the Vong.
12. Onimi's ultimate role in the end.

I've heard all of the above arguments in on form or the other. Some of them are somwhat oversimplified. I understand some of them, though hardly agree with any of them really. Some people share just some of these but still like the series overall.

 

Sorry, but explain to me how in a gay Dalek a 13m Coralskipper starfighter can duel with a 150m frigate?

Khalee couldn't kill his nemesis aboard a huge frigate singlehanded, so he . . . kills himself in shame? And you don't know actually did, the writing was carelessly vague. You only realise it from later sources.

Seriously, if I don't stop now---now---I'll only start critical striking this repaste of Hutt lavatory. Didn't I once list an astounding 10-12 faults on it? In all seriousness, that's not funny. If you're going to breeze something, at least price it differently, for fairness.

 

Any chance we'll be getting your Dark Nest views here aswell?

 

This is agreat thread, I liked the NJO series, the main problem with the series as a whole was the disjointed characterisations it seemed like the authors didn't communicate to each other at all about what they had planned.

 

They think the fact that a biological weapon wasnt used to commit xenocide against a non-hive minded species is a reason to HATE the series? Frankly, I find that dispiccable. I assume these are the same people who think the Cold War should have come to nuclear war had the other side not had enough nukes to wipe them out?

NB. the only reason I implied that I might advocate xenocide against a hive-mind is because depending on the nature of the hive system, killing the queen, which would be the only way to remove the hierarchy, would kill the entire species anyway, so it makes no difference.

 

Yeah well some found the Vong so despicable, evil and I guess just so different that they thought that the Vong would deserve nothing less. I'm serious, I've read people write it. Of course it's possible that they were just exaggerating and expressing their malcontent for them as an idea of Del Rey. Still...

 

Thats just outright prejudice, cos they know for a fact that not ALL the Vong were like that. Xenocide includes killing the innocent ones ¬_¬

 

Well, like I said, go figure....

And these same people think NJO isn't Star Warsy enough. I just wonder, would genocide by the GFFA make it more Star Warsy?