New Jedi Order (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Chicago, IL' started by Empyre, Apr 4, 2001.

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  1. Empyre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2000
    star 2
    This is for us to discuss the developments of the New Jedi Order. The latest book, Conquest, introduces some very interesting ideas which I would like to see your reactions from. Note the spoilers tag at the top. This is the place to discuss anything that has happened in the books but if you are discussing a particular event in a book please still warn us, as some may not have read that book yet.
  2. Empyre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2000
    star 2
    First off I was trying to figure out an answer to this question. Why are the Vong not part of the force? If what we have known to be true still holds it would appear that they are not alive. Yet this is false. Conquest gives an answer but I am not sure I want to buy into that one yet.
    Any ideas.
  3. jedigal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 4
    I haven't even seen Conquest yet in the stores. Wonder if they can't keep the shelves stocked or if Del Rey is boycotting Missouri?
  4. JediGemini Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Conquest came out yesterday, Steph!
    I have just started it, so I can't say much yet...

    Empyre's question about the Vong is a tough one to answer. All I can really say myself is that the Yuuzhan Vong are from a different galaxy all together! They are not from the galaxy our dear friends are from. That could make a difference.
  5. jedigal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 4
    I know, but two books ago, I was able to buy a copy early. Anyway, I stop by the B&N that's a block from my work almost every day as I leave the office, and DEFINITELY every day when I'm expecting a new SW publication. They didn't have it on the shelf on Wed, and they still didn't have it last night. I had to drive out of my to hit Borders. Got it now, though. But - I'm in the middle of reading the Thrawn trilogy (in preparation for meeting Timothy Zahn at Gateway Con this summer) and I hate to stop in the middle of the second book and then come back to it. Haven't yet decided what to do about that.

    Until I see the new theory in Conquest, I have been going on the same theory that Gem said, that b/c they are from a different galaxy, that somehow makes a different. But if that DOES make a difference, then that really changes the nature of the Force in my mind's eye. And in a way I don't like. Hopefully the new Conquest theory will work better for me.
  6. Mos_Eisleian_Radio FanForce CR Secretary Chicago IL US

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    I've heard a theory that takes Ben's line in ANH literally: "It binds the galaxy together." Meaning that the Force as no power over anything outside of the galaxy.

    That would also take away the Force from any Jedi and Sith who found themselves outside of the galaxy in any of our imagined crossovers, such as Darth Maul vs. Batman.

    Phil
  7. JediGemini Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Go here if you want to learn the latest on the third NJO hardcover, Star by Star!

    http://www.starwars.com/swtoday/

  8. Xmaveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 5
    I think that the book was much too vague to draw a conclusion about the Force in the Vong...oh, sorry, "Yuuzhan Vong." Sure, they flirted a bit with the idea that the YV might have their own "version" of the Force. But then, why don't THEY have any Jedi-type people who can use it? If they take this concept further, then our Jedi could learn the "YV Force" and kick their butts back to the galalxy they came from.
  9. Empyre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2000
    star 2
    I think they probably do have people similar to the Jedi. For example the shapers talk a lot about praying for new protocols. What if it turns out that they are getting hints from their version of the force? They may not have the telekinetic skills of the Jedi but they would still be in communication with whatever binds their galaxy together. If this is so, their priests would be their version of the Jedi.
    Or my other possibility, this will sound very religious, is that the Force has no complement in the Yuzhaan Vong galaxy. Instead we find out that the force is merely some aspect of a higher force which is not limited to just to one galaxy.
    I do not know but it is fun to speculate
  10. JediGemini Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ?[face_plain]

    My only problem with the NJO so far is that everyone not a Yuuzhan Vong doesn't defend what they believe in. Like with Anakin and what's his name (Vuuphang Ra or something). Let's just call him the Shamed One. The Shamed One dude talks about what he believes in and why the humans are infedels and what not. Anakin doesn't really defend himself and explain what he believes in. THis might be becuase he doesn't want to start a fight, but I don't like it. Also, nothing comes out about the other "religions" or beliefs of other humans or species. WHat about the Gungans... They use most organic stuff to build there transportation and homes. Wouldn't the Yuuzhan Vong sort of appreciate that?
    Oh, wait a second. The Vong probably wouldn't care, but anyways, that just kind of bugs me...

    J-Gem~~
  11. jedigal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 4
    I think that Anakin doesn't "explain" himself to Mr. Shame b/c he recognizes that Mr. Shame will not be able to hear what he has to say. It takes an open mind to listen to ideas that contrary to one's own and to try to see things from the other's point of view.

    None of the Yuuzhan Vong, from what I've seen, have shown any interest in figuring out WHY the SW galaxy folks behave as they do, they are too busy stamping out all this heresy. It seems like the idea that their belief system might be "wrong" is so abhorrent to them that they are unable to do "hypothetical situation" analysis. Unfortunately, this has yet to be a major disadvantage to them. So far, their superior military force seems to be all they need.

    Wow! Think of all the real-world issues that underlie this storyline. Prejudice, religion, bureaucracy, violence...
    They're sure giving us a lot to think about.
  12. JediGemini Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    You said that really well, Steph, and I do agree with you, though it still upsets me a little bit... I'm sure I'll get over it!
  13. jedigal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 4
    [face_blush] Gee, thanks, Gem!
    I think you'll get over it when you come to accept what Anakin (and others) have already accepted
    - they ain't no use yackin your mouth off to someone who ain't lissnin'
    - they ain't gonna lissen til they wanna
    - they won't wanna lessen they think theys summat advantage in it; and
    - that will happen when it happens and not before, always in motion is the future...
  14. Xmaveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 5
    I thought it was very interesting how the YV thought that they could get their redemption from the Jedi :)
  15. Empyre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2000
    star 2
    I don't know how I missed this before. In Conquest the Vong find out about the Vornskrs. And they mention that they are engaged in shaping them towards their own purposes. Damn Karrde. I wonder if they find out about the Ysalamari. Things are rapidaly coming to a head in the New Jedi order aren't they.

    A new question about the NJO is about Dathomir. Now seventy-five percent of that planet is force-sensitive. and they are smack in the middle of the invasion route. Where they captured or did the Vong pass them by. That is a battle I would love to see.
  16. ScoobyDew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2000
    star 1
    Going way back in the discussion...the issue of the Vong not being present in the Force. I don't know if you all remember, but the New Jedi Order series started around when Episode I was released (a few months after maybe?). And they started it to have some continuity for the books, instead of one book going on here and in this time, and another a few years after or before, etc.

    Also, the TPM era book Rogue Planet foreshadowed a bit about the Vong as well.

    So, what does this all mean? Well, I'm sure you all remember the little conversation between Annie and Qui-Jon. "What are midiclorians?"

    Midiclorians are what make Jedis be able to manipulate the force. So, no midiclorians, no using the force, no force there.

    So I submit that the Vong aren't there in the force, because they don't have midiclorians.

    And now Anakin, in Conquest, seems to be able to use the force to pinpoint Vong, by sensing where they're not.

    I think they're trying to tie EP1 into the New Jedi Order. I think enventually, the New Jedi Order Jedis will re-discover information about Midiclorians, and it'll be interesting where they go from there.

    Scooby
  17. Xmaveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 5
    Now THAT is a very good idea!
  18. Empyre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2000
    star 2
    Think Vergere will come back from wherever she went?
    And why has she not come back yet? She was Jedi and now the Jedi are getting beaten nine ways from sunday. Perhaps they are just waiting for after Episode II to bring here back, then she will reveal most of the secrets of the old Jedi that the Emperor purged. Or perhaps she was the subject of some shaping and is now in meditation trying to figure out what has been done to her. perhaps she even has forgotten she was Jedi.
  19. ScoobyDew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2000
    star 1
    Vergere was Jedi? I guess I'm just totally out of it, but I thought she was just a familar to that one Vong that died a couple of books back. I didn't really her being Jedi, but then again, I read kinda fast.

    I thought Anakin's friend (in Conquest) was the Vong's first attempt at trying to use Jedi?

    Scooby
  20. JediGemini Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Well, I don't think anybody knows she's a Jedi. The only reason that the readers know is if they've read Rogue Planet by Greg Bear like Scooby mentioned. This is a story set a few years after TPM and feature Obi-Wan and Anakin. They are searching for the Jedi Vergere and like Scooby said also, the Vong are foreshadowed a bit.

    J-Gem~~
  21. ScoobyDew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2000
    star 1
    Oh yeah....I read way too fast. I did read Rogue Planet, but I forgot that Vergere was a Jedi. That sheds a little light on things.

    But then the question is, was she really shaped? Because in Conquest, they seem to have no idea about the Jedi in regards to shaping.

    Anyhow, I think I need to go back and review a couple of books in light of Vergere being a Jedi....

    Scooby
  22. JediGemini Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I don't remember there ever being a mention of her being shaped. I could be wrong...
  23. Empyre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2000
    star 2
    There wasn't any mention of her having been shaped. I was just trying to figure out why she continues to be absent months after she went to see her people again. I just find it odd that a jedi would run away and not return to help the new jedi.
  24. Xmaveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 5
    I think the answer lies in the author, not the character. I think that he just wanted to write about every character that ever existed in the SW Universe. I hate him.
  25. jedigal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 4
    I think that Vergere's appearance in Rogue Planet and then her subsequent reappearance in the NJO was NOT the result of an author just throwing in existing characters wherever possible. The publishing times of the books were so close together that Vergere must be a purposeful link planned by whatever committee oversees the EU continuity. I don't think it's a coincidence that she appears, and what she does.

    That said, what the heck is going on? She seems to feel some connection with her Vong mistress, but we know she IS a Jedi. We don't know whether she is abandoning her previous Jedi loyalty, whether she is trying to serve two loyalties at once, whether she TRULY has any loyalty to the Vong as a group or her mistress in particular, whether her new loyalty has taken precedence over the old, whether she's out to save her own hide, or whether she might need to hide on Dagobah like Yoda for a few years or something. We just don't know. And that is what makes me like her character. I want to find out what the heck's going on with her. Vergere is COOL! :cool:
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