*NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by LucasBuiltMeHotRod, Oct 15, 2007.

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  1. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    Just because you don't like them doesn't make it an unfair comparison. They are Star Wars television projects, produced by Lucasfilm and with involvement from Lucas himself, and starring characters from the films. The three Ewok projects were made for kids under ten, so of course most of us don't like them, but I have to say that Droids continues to hold up pretty well despite its dated production values.

    I agree, and I think the comments made so far by LFL staffers are more to emphasize that the show will not prominently feature or revolve around Jedi and the Force, because the other series do and if they didn't make this clear from the beginning then everyone would assume we'd have a series about rogue Jedi and the early Rebels.

    However, I think one of the smarter things about something that based on smugglers/criminals/bounty hunter, or whatever it is the series will actually be following, is that these types of characters are basically galactic travellers that wet their beak in all variety of goings-on in the universe, and thats why it makes for a good story concept--there can be such variety. Thats what helped Firefly stay fresh, they could bring them anywhere and into contact with anyone. And I think--dramatically speaking--the concept of renegade Jedi is too juicy to resist. Its just such a natural story point to encounter, especially with main characters on the sort of underside of the law. I think what will happen is that at some point we will meet a Jedi, but it will only be like once a season or something, maybe they will save this for the season finale or include it in the pilot so as to draw in Star Wars fans that aren't as interested in a non-Jedi-based show.

    GM makes an excellent point, and thats exactly why there cannot be Jedi in any prominent manner in the show--even if its 2-5 years after. The way ROTS implies it, the majority of the Jedi are dead and the survivors are in the process of being exteriminated, and so while there might be several dozen out there it would still be highly out of place to come across them frequently or to show them frequently.

    My feeling is that the show will probably take place 5-10 years after ROTS; I would argue that closer to ROTS than ANH is a more interesting time period from a dramatic standpoint, because its the period of transition, when the galaxy changes and conflict begins (as opposed to 5 years before ANH, where things ought to be basically as they are in that film). That doesn't automatically make it so, of course, but if I had to bet on
  2. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    What i mean was that it would be unfair to use them in the context of "See, the Ewoks movies didn't have Jedi and look what happened to them!" It would be a stupid argument to use against, say, Pizza the hutt who would (quight rightly) eat it alive. Just a clarification.

    And if this is really the case, forget it. I'm fine with it not revolving around Jedi, but no Jedi cast members leaves me unimpressed. In that case i'll watch BSG while i can (After all, i've missed nearly the whole series so far so i can catch up on it via DVD). Clone wars looks ok but it's Jedi overload. Doesn't hurt anyone else unless a whole lot more decide my way.
  3. somethingfamiliar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 5
    I thought that was really cool when I saw that as a kid. He found it in the back of a speeder or something like that. Instantly you've got this wider background to things. It might be interesting to have a "felt, not seen" thing like that in the LA show, more interesting I think than having them involved outright in the action. I could see something like a smuggler's passenger being ambiguously Jedi, a one-time character pulling a low-key Jedi-like trick or having some kind of Jedi knowledge or artifact to make you wonder. Just something small. It would be great to bring SW back to a more ANH universe, including Jedi being obscure, mysterious, dangerous parts of a mythic past.
  4. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Crime Wars could've worked in any timeline since Sith and Jedi aren't in the show. It's just a bunch of smugglers and crime lords giving each other the slip. I hate to say it, but the Stargate creators have more brains and creativity than the SW creator. Lucas is suffering the same syndrome that the Superman movie creators are suffering from. And like Superman, this SW series is going to get trounced by better Sci Fi shows.

    I'm now more excited for Stargate Universe than Crime Wars.
  5. Darth_Crow_T_Robot Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2000
    I've seen this argument before. Same exact positions on both sides. Where was it...?

    Oh yeah, I remember:

    http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/


    For years the debate went on: Jedi must be rare VS Everyone only wants Jedi.

    The "Jedi must be rare" camp won...and the game was released to a massive "yawn". What should have been an epic game turned into a mediocre game with numbers that while they seemed high, were abyssmal for the money invested and expectations.

    Eventually the game was tanking so bad without Jedi that they redid the whole thing to include Jedi.

    No matter what any fan of the other parts of the SW Universe believe, Jedi are and always will be the center of the SW galaxy. It's the ONE thing they have that sets them apart from the crowd. If they don't play to their strengths and make the show with Jedi at the center, it will tank, guaranteed.
  6. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    I don't think you can compare the gaming crowd to the context of a dramatic television show. Since the Jedi's distinctiveness revolves around their super-powers it follows that this would be highly desirable for a video game. Dramatic requirements of story and character in a live-action television show do not follow analagously.
  7. WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2007
    star 3
    If the Jedi are what separate Star Wars and not having them will make it tank, then why do other sci-fi shows do fine? If the show is well written and acted, then it will do well. One of the biggest complaints of the PT is that it had too many Jedi and no smugglers/bounty hunters, so this should satisfy a lot of those people.
  8. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Those shows never had it in their canon to begin with. Jedi is a crucial part of SW canon and to call something SW without any will leave normal people (as in people who don't nitpick over 2 second sequences, pick apart meanings of a single line of dialogue or obsess over characters who's entire participation in the saga involves looking over a wall at some racing pods going by) wondering where the heck they are. You do realize that there are fans of Sci-fi that aren't so rabid their googling anything related to their pet franchises, don't you? Like it or not Jedi are what makes SW distinct from Firefly, Star Trek, Farscape, BSG, Babylon 5, and a host of other sci fi shows. The Fantasy element they bring to the table put a unique fingerprint on SW and to remove that makes it the same old same old. At least Firefly didn't have wooden dialogue, whatever else you may say about it or it's fanatical fans.

    Sci-fi doesn't tank without Jedi, but Star Wars without them isn't Star Wars.



    So basically it's feast or famine. Great plan, there. How about a happy medium? You know, like the OT this series is supposed to be emulating?

    The PT should have found a balance, but GL apparently decided that all people wanted to see was Jedi which was a stupid choice. Obi-Wan and Anakin were the only Jedi fans wanted to get to know (No one in 2 decades ever mentioned wanting to see Yoda jumping around like a muppet on crack), and the lack of non force using characters of any worth other than Natalie Portman and her wooden indian impersonation was a detriment to the movies. If you think, however, that 'those people' didn't want any Jedi or won't want them in the show I have faith you'll see just how wrong you are. It's a bummer, really, because if this one fails it's probably the last nail for Live action SW. I doubt Lucas would chance another one.
  9. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    A couple posts up someone brought up SWG and it's a GREAT analogy to illustrate my feast or famine point. No Jedi at all, while canonically correct, wouldn't have been SW so they gave people the option of becoming one. Certain players with no lives sat there for months grinding out their force sensitive character slot until there were a few Jedi running around. This increased a little until people who actually leave the house once in a while started seeing Jedi running around coronet fighting off entire groups of Bounty Hunters at once (This was awesome) and wondering why the mind numbing crazy hologrind was there effectively preventing them from having a Jedi character unless they gave their entire lives up and rooted themselves to their computers (In those days there was permadeath for Jedi, too, but that didn't last once people who'd worked like crazy started losing their characters to it and quitting the game) so SOE relented and they started with the Village, a series of quests that effectively regulated the number of Jedi. Took months to finish the village because you would finish a few missions then have to wait weeks for it to reset.

    At this point the game was probably at it's best, the Village era was when i got my Jedi (so i'm biased). There were Jedi, a lot of people were more into the guns and stuff which most mmo's didn't have and thus weren't really interested in a melee/mage type charater that was running all over games like UO and EQ, and still others that took one look at how long it took and were like NO WAY (not to mention people who were halfheartedly doing the village that were destined never to complete it). It wasn't canonically correct, but who cared?

    It was all about to come down on our ears...

    I won't get into the CU, i hated it at first but came to accept it and by the end thought the game was a little more balanced even if i still had some issues with the changes, i REALLY wont get into the zombie apocalypse that was the NGE. Some idiot decided to make Jedi a starting character profession (professions were dumb anyway), so then what did you see? 9 million Jedi running around! It seemed like EVERY newbie character starting out on that retarded station they added was a Jedi, Obi-Wan's house was overrun! When they added the (also stupid) cloaks that dropped in Deathwatch Bunker (in those days) you couldn't go near the place without your character locking up there were so many people running around inside looking for Jedi Knight Cloaks. Mention the Jedi Master Cloak and the salivation was palpable. Us Elder Jedi were just DYING by this point. Wasn't long after this you started seeing the pages of ebay filled to the brim with elder jedi (I didn't sell mine, not that anyone was buying, i deleted it on principal). Now SWG has like 2 players, both Jedi, and SOE has it's head in the sand.

    The moral of the story? People wouldn't accept famine (to the point of investing months at a time to get what they wanted), feast struck the deathblow (Legions of Jedi running around like the clones were attacking), and even players who were RABID againt Jedi all over the place on the SWG forums switched their characters over to be able to light up the glowstick (No way were all those respec jedi new since they were all level 80, and it was all you saw).

    Pretty well illustrates what people like about star wars considering they jumped at it all at once with both feet the first easy chance they got.






    (God, someone finish one of those old style SWG emulators PLEASE!)
  10. Darth-Wyrm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 1
    I honestly think in the end that this debate is all pointless. First of all, I don't even think the two camps are all that far apart. The "No Mass Jedi" camp just can't seem to understand that the "Yes Jedi" camp isn't demanding hordes of Jedi running around.

    GL isn't stupid. The Jedi are his pet creation. More distinctly Lucas than anything else in Star Wars. SW took bits and pieces from all sorts of pop culture and mythology, but in the Jedi, he found the perfect (and unexplored) combination of an old-world knight in a hi-tech world. He's not letting that go.

    The others can complain all they want, but I'd bet the moisture farm that the Force will be in the LAS.
  11. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Of course. But it will be subtle. If we will see a Jedi, he or she will be in disguise. Perhaps working as a Bounty Hunter. Another might carry a lightsaber, claiming he killed a Jedi and took it. And he could even be speaking the truth. It will make us wonder all the time. I'm sure we'll see some kind of fugitive Jedi at some point. But it might take a while to figure out who it is.
  12. Darth-Wyrm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 1
    See that I can live with. I'm perfectly fine with it being subtle and somewhat hidden. I've said numerous times that I fully expect us to see a group of protagonists with one of them being a Jedi in hiding. I don't expect him/her to use their Force abilities openly or often. That wouldn't make sense. But every once in a while, when times are particularly desperate, we're going to see flashes of it.

    Personally, I also think that at some point we're going to see a villain with Force abilities. Either directly related to the Empire (like an Emperor's Hand/Vader's Secret Apprentice type thing), or maybe a Dark Jedi running some crime organization (which I guess would fit with all the crime org. rumors we've heard so far).

    Either way, I don't see any reason to be negative. I think this show is going to be great.
  13. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    My concern for this series is that it's going to take place in one location only. That won't be fun.
  14. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    There's no indication of that. If it was the case, i agree, it would be terrible.
  15. WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2007
    star 3
    Wow, you sure seem to know a ton about a series which hasn't filmed a single shot yet. You apparently have insight the rest of us aren't privy to and already know the dialogue will be bad. To quote Padme, "You assume too much". And sure, I know that all viewers aren't fanboys, but like George expected people to have seen the previous films, I expect them to know that the vast majority of Jedi have been killed.
  16. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Um, SW always has wooden dialogue what movies were you watching?
  17. WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2007
    star 3
    I'm talking about the tv series. Of course the dialogue in the movies was wooden, which is why I always laugh when PT haters bring this up.
  18. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1

    I don't expect the TV series to be a whole lot different. 2/6 of the saga wasn't written by lucas and the dialogue was still pretty wooden.
  19. VladTheImpaler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 4
    You know, now that I think about it, I'm not sure I buy the "if there are no Jedi, what makes it any different from Star Trek?" type arguments.

    I would say there is plenty that separates Star Wars from other scifi shows/movies. For one, the art design. X-wings, Y-wings, Star Destroyers...they all do such a great job of capturing the imagination. No other scifi space ship designs have made me sit up and take notice like Star Wars. I see Babylon 5 ships and I just think "...so?". I actually loved Farscape, but the spaceship designs there are painfully boring as well.

    And the fast paced action in Star Wars was pretty unique itself(much more exciting than the slower paced Star Trek style battles, where you're just watching somebody issue commands instead of seeing real dogfighting). And then there's the whole "lived-in" universe which was so unique compared to other clean/shiny/sterile futuristic environments that was the norm at the time.

    Other scifi productions have since picked up on that kind of stuff, so it's not quite as unique today...but I think there is still a desire amongst mainstream audiences to see it again in a Star Wars setting.

    And then there's the whole rogue/cowboy element that Han brought to the table. Everyone loved it in the OT, and everybody missed it in the PT. I'd love to see it come back in the live action series.

    I don't want to bad-mouth the jedi. Jedi action is awesome. I just want to keep them "special", you know? In the movies, the jedi were supposedly killed. Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only ones left. Why mess with that?
  20. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Maybe once upon a time, but some of the ships in the PT looked kinda silly (Anything from Naboo to be exact). I dug the Jedi starfighters (both models) and the 'new' design for the star destroyers though. Whatever, it doesn't really have anything do do with the situation at hand so there's no sense nitpicking.

    Sure the art department 30 years ago did a great job, and the Art department 10 years ago did a good job on some stuff. I imagine the art department will do a good job on this one.

    And removing this completely would be a mistake, no? How is Jedi any different?


    Might have been the norm in 1977, but the lived in look is pretty common in 2008. Nitpicking, but true.

    Sure, along with Lightsaber action. Side by side. With neither getting more focus than the other.

    Look, what the people advancing the argument about "no Jedi = BSG/Firefly" (which is a better comparison that SW to Trek) are really saying is this: Jedi are at the core of star wars just as much as space cowboys, dogfights and high adventure ever were and to lose that makes SW lose it's soul (Much like the galaxy sort of lost it's conscience with the extinction of the Jedi Order). Even if it DOES have the rest (And a lot of what you guys are advancing isn't at the core of SW, there being like 2 Bounty Hunters with any lines both of whom die like punks, and one single crimelord in the whole saga) to lose one part of the whole diminishes it all. You might say "well, that's what happened to the GFFA when the Jedi died" but we are talking about a TV show, why make a TV show that cuts out such an integral part even if it conforms to ideas people have had for years that aren't supported in any of the movies just so a wide swath of the fanbase can feel knifed between the shoulder blades? It's not a very good business decision to remove an aspect so many of us love regardless of any canon reason (or in this case a non-canon reason, see below). Why even make it at all if you're just going to do that?


    Where in ROTS does it state that all the Jedi are dead? Watch it and listen for the line. You won't find it. It isn't until ANH (18-20 years later) that you hear that line. I don't mean to sound like a jerk but if they wanted all the Jedi to be dead definitively by the end of ROTS, don't you think... you know... there would be some indication of that?

    Decimated, yes. I don't think there's an argument there. There should be no Jedi Order post ROTS.
  21. Criix Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    I agree that some Jedi are still left. That was the whole point of Obi-Wan going to the temple and changing the beacon message to "stay away." They've already written some books about the surviving Jedi in hiding (Last of the Jedi and Dark Lord), and those stories were pretty good. Everyone wants to see Vader hunt down and kill the remaning Jedi, just like Obi-Wan described in A New Hope. The TV series is a perfect opportunity to fill in all the blanks that GL didn't get around to filling in the PT, so it would be great if at least one of the stories dealt with a Jedi in hiding who eventually gets found and slain by Vader. Can you imaging the ratings of an episode where Vader appears and duels a Jedi? That's sweeps week stuff right there.

    On an unrelated note, does anyone else think Jimmy Smitts was specifically given the role of Bail Organa in the movies because he was going to get a starring role on the show? I mean think about it, of all actors to cast, they cast Jimmy, who's mainly known as a TV star. A guy who's used to the TV shooting schedule, which is VERY different from a movie shooting schedule. I've always believed Lucas offered him the part on the condition that he'll play the character in the TV show. The screentime Bail had in the movies was so small, I can't help but think there was an upside to the deal for Jimmy. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can understand them not wanting to do a show about Luke, because nothing much happens to him while he's growing up, but a show about Leia's father would be the next best thing, especially for the casual fan who doesn't know much about Star Wars and won't care about a totally new character that wasn't in the movies, or related to anyone in the movies. You say to someone "The show is about Princess Leia's father" and that'll instantly hook people. Plus since Bail is a senator, that opens up cameo appearances by the Emperor or Vader.
  22. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    My issue isn't the no Jedi stuff. It's the crime stuff. It was the most boring part in Knights of the Old Republic. It was the most boring part in RotJ. It was the most boring segment in The Phantom Menace. Notice that Empire had small segments of Crime War stuff and it is the best installment. Make Crime Wars the main focus and watch your series go to hell. BSG and Stargate will remain the best current Sci Fi shows.
  23. Darth-Wyrm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 1
    Well BSG will be done by then (though they are doing a prequel).

    The thing that concerns me about the crime stuff is that we'll just get some rip-off Han and Chewie duo who aren't nearly as interesting. I don't know how many gun-slinging, cowboy types with alien sidekicks we can have. I think a lot of people here think back to how much they loved Han's character, but I'm skeptical that they'll be able to reproduce that. Plus, that had as much to do with Harrison Ford as it did with the character.

    In my head, this show is a lot like Firefly. Which isn't a bad thing at all actually.
  24. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Like Dash Rendar? Yeah, Han's been ripped off a lot in the last 20-25 years. None as interesting as the original.
  25. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    don't forget that though a jedi in hiding may be introduced it doesn't mean he has to survive the series ;)
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