*NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by LucasBuiltMeHotRod, Oct 15, 2007.

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  1. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Reading on what's going on inside Vader's head was more interesting than reading about Xizor sipping champagne and looking at a dinner menu. Xizor didn't do squat for half the book. If that's a taste of what this TV series will be, it will suck badly.
  2. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Gotta go with Earthknight on this one. Xizor was a lackluster villan who didn't really do anything. I liked Guri a lot more. If you honestly thing that some goofy book character who sits there bossing Hutts around was more interesting than OT Darth Vader i just don't know what to tell you. We must be complete opposite types of fans, then.

    I'm not opposed to the criminal thing being a facet of the show (quite the opposite), i'd just rather it not be the whole thing. But i'm not really worried about that because i don't think it will be. Anyone remember the rebel named Naberri bandied about on AICN a while back? If that's true it nixes the 100% criminal focus theory.

    Here's an idea, how about a heroic bounty hunter? They can't all be working for the bad guys, right? Someone that hunts down folks that deserve hunting down. That'd be cool. Like SpaceDog (just minus the n-word).
  3. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    Kind of like a Dog The Bounty Hunter without the racial slurs in the Star Wars Galaxy? I like it.
  4. Pizza-the-Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    That's exactly what I don't want. Vader's secret apprentice that is never mentioned in the OT. It just adds more unnecessary retcon.

    I agree 100% with Zombie. I'd like to see this be about bounty hunters, smugglers, and X-Wing pilots. The problem with the Clone Wars is that you've got Sith who are never mentioned in the movies and yet are main characters in the cartoons. I'd hate to see something similar in the live action show.

    A Jedi in hiding is one thing I guess because it's feasible that he/she could have survived the purge. But to have secret apprentices and 'dark Jedi' wandering around would stop me from watching the show.

    Deadwood/Sopranos is exactly what I want. I know that won't please everyone, but for goodness sake there's the whole Clone Wars and PT that deal with Jedi exploits. Can't we go back to Star Wars as it was in 77 were the Jedi were 'all but extinct' and we had one Sith Lord?
  5. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
  6. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I'm with Pizza and everybody else who would like a return to the good old days of the OT when Jedi were only mentioned in tales and legends. Bring on the Hutts on Nar Shaddaa, the Rebellion and the Spice smuggling, the Bounty Hunting, the Pod-Racing! It's Star Wars! I'm super pumped for this kind of setting!

    Just imagine watching it, wondering about every character you see if he or she might be a Jedi in disguise! The sheer suspense!
  7. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah and then you find out that there are no Jedi in disguise and that the Pod Racing plotline added nothing to the overall plotline.
  8. Darth-Wyrm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 1

    Uh, what does it matter whether or not the SA was mentioned in the OT? This series has virtually nothing to do with the OT. Lucas has said himself that none of those characters will appear in the LAS. Plus, according to the rumors regarding the Force Unleashed game, that's going to have a much more direct connection to ANH than either of these shows will. Having the SA appear once in a while on this show doesn't require any retcon whatsoever. Not many people even knew that there was an SA. It's not like he'll appear suddenly and announce himself - "Hi all, I'm Vader's secret apprentice! But shhhh! I'm a secret!"

    The whole point of him being a SECRET apprentice is that nobody, even the Emperor, knew he existed. That's why he fits in so cleanly (in theory). You can have him come in and out with no reports of his existence b/c nobody knows he exists.

    Look, I'm fine with most of the primary characters being completely non-force users. I prefer that too. But there has to be SOME force wielding going on. Otherwise, despite what you may want to believe, it's just not Star Wars to the rest of the world. When you say "Star Wars" to people, they think Jedi, Darth Vader, etc. There has to be SOME link to that part of the SW universe.

    I have absolutely no doubt that we'll see force users in the show, including one of the protagonists. I would bet on that. I just hope we also see a very cool villain who is also a force user, and it would just make sense if it was the SA doing Vader's bidding. Otherwise, it would be hard to explain the character's existence at all.
  9. Pizza-the-Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Some people have an aversion to Anakin having an apprentice in the new CW cartoon, because she isn't mentioned in ROTS. Now it may be that this apprentice will die in the cartoon and so you can say "well why would they mention her?". Similarly, as you have done, we can say "it's a secret apprentice, why would they mention him?". But I do think that if people watch Episodes I, II, Clone Wars, III, LA series, IV, V, VI, it is going to be jarring that these important force users just disappear.

    Some people want to see Yoda put into ANH because they think it's strange he isn't seen or heard of. The reason Yoda isn't mentioned in ANH is because at that time Lucas hadn't invented him yet. If Lucas was to remake the OT today, he probably would put Yoda somewhere in ANH. Yoda had to be invented because he was a major part of the plot in the films, so we can forgive him not being mentioned in ANH. However, the SA and Anakin's apprentice have no relevance at all to the overall story.

    This SA hasn't been created because it adds anything to the story, or to Vader's character, it's been created because Lucas thinks it will make fans go "ZOMG KEWL!!1!". But it isn't cool, it's just ridiculous. The reason why the SA isn't mentioned in the OT, isn't beause it was secret. It was because from 77-83 Vader didn't have an apprentice. Therefore it is a retcon. If Lucas was making the OT now, and Vader had a secret apprentice, do you honestly believe we wouldn't see him in ANH, TESB, or ROTJ? Of course we would.

    The SA is just a way to sell more books, comics, action figures, computer games, and lunchboxes. Being Vader's apprentice is probably a lot of fun in a computer game, but it just adds unnecessary fluff to what is a great OT story.

    As for a lack of force users in the LA series. You're right when you say that people associate Star Wars with Jedi. But people also associate Star Wars with X-Wings, Boba Fett, the Falcon, Princess Leia, Wookies, Stormtroopers, droids and a whole host of other things, none of which involve the Force. I think that there are a lot of great stories to be told involving smugglers, bounty hunters, the Empire, and the Rebellion. You might not agree, but Han Solo is arguably the most popular OT character and he's not a Sith or Jedi. A character doesn't have to use the force to be interesting. In fact, the action scenes in ANH don't revolve around Obi-Wan they revolve around Luke and Han, characters who don't use the force. It's only really in ROTJ do we see really see Jedi in action.

    Are people going to be disappointed if the LA series turns out to be ANH minus Obi-Wan? I very much doubt it.
  10. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Couldn't have said it any better.


    They wouldn't have in the late 70's, in the late 00's it's a different story. No Jedi = not Star Wars. Besides, we had that already, it was called Firefly. No one watched it until it was on DVD. We've got interstellar dogfighting too, it's called Battlestar Galactica.

    But then i'm not worried about that, because i can't think of ONE thing made for SW in the past 20 years (be it video games, comics, books, whatever, ANY tie in of ANY kind) that didn't have force using characters (the ONLY thing i can think of was the crappy first Ewoks movie from 1984). Protagonist, antagonist, side character, whatever, SOMEONE has always been a force user. And i can't see that trend breaking. And that's a good thing because the last thing i want is to be let down AGAIN by Star Wars!
  11. Darth-Wyrm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 1
    This is such a great point. People seem to be stuck in the past. They don't realize that Star Wars for you, is not the same Star Wars today. GL specifically talked about this a few months ago. He talked about how a lot of older people watched Star Wars when they were kids and fell in love with it. And now they're older and they hate the new stuff because it doesn't fit their idea of what SW is. He said that what they're forgetting is that a lot of Star Wars is for kids, and that's who his target is.

    The younger audience today associates Star Wars even moreso with Jedi/Sith than fans of the OT. You might have been perfectly enchanted with the non-Force parts of the OT, but the audience of today won't accept that (and frankly, I think you're in denial as a good chunk of OT fans like myself also want to see Force users in the LAS). You keep referring to the OT over and over like you're trying to convince everyone but nobody is listening. That's because they're not. The OT began over 30 years ago. THIRTY. The CW and the LAS aren't targeting the 40 and over crowd. Sorry but nobody is. The prestigious target group is the 18-25 group and younger (I'm not in that group either btw), and everyone in that bracket loves Jedi/Sith and wouldn't watch Star Wars without it.

    As Cid said, if you want something different, go rent Firefly and BSG (which is an awesome, awesome show). If you're expecting no force users in the LAS, then just start complaining now because you won't like it when it comes out.

  12. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    That is ridiculous. The only reason people make that associated right now is because the only Star Wars they have really been bombarded with for the last ten years is the prequels, so its always Jedi this and that. Lots of people think of only that as Star Wars because thats all they've seen for the last ten years. But there was twenty years before that that did not revolve around such things. As Pizza the Hutt pointed out, SW equally is associated with bounty hunters, smugglers, rebels, dogfights, etc. (even in the prequels).

    That is such a narrow-minded view. Just because the prequels focused on Jedi doesn't mean everything henceforth must as well. Nor does it mean that they have to cater to one market; playing to the demands of the majority is creatively stagnant IMO. There are many sides to the Star Wars galaxy, and the Jedi-related aspect has been given its due. I'm not saying that it should never be revisited, but that this new series looks to touch upon an equally valid but much less tired side, in the sense that it hasn't really been visited since the Fett comics of the late 90's. If you want to critcize proponents of this as living in the past, perhaps you should extend that view to the "Star Wars mean only Jedi" crowd--not only is that view not up to date, since LAS is effectively undoing it, but its also ignorant of the vast majority of the franchise' history. It sounds to me like just using strawman arguments to justify ones own preference. Both of these aspects--Jedi and smugglers/rebels/bountyhunters--are the two sides of SW; one which is more emphasized in the PT and the other in the OT.

    And if you want Jedi then you have two Clone War television series, three prequels, and practically every video game, comic and novel since 1999. While I agree that the series sounds like its suspiciously similar to Firefly, if you are going to base the validity of the series' existance based on how saturated the market is with similar material, then the first potential concept to throw out the window is something involving Jedi.
  13. Pizza-the-Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Older fans, who can't let go huh? I'm 21 years old. My first experience of Star Wars was watching the SEs in 97. I was 13 when TPM came out. I'm hardly the grumpy old man you're painting me out to be.

    You say, Darth-Wyrm, that you're not part of the prestigious 18-25 age group. Well I am. When you speak to people my age about Star Wars they immediately think of the OT, not the PT. Generally the OT are the "good ones" and the PT are "the new ones". Throwing in loads of force users doesn't make a story good. You say that everyone in my age bracket would refuse to watch a LA series if it didn't contain force users. As a member of that age group, with friends in that age group who enjoy Star Wars, I am telling you that you are wrong.

    I realise that the PT was always going be centred around the Jedi, as was the Clone Wars cartoon. After all both of these are set during the period when the Jedi were at their peak. I don't have a problem with that. I wanted to see Jedi kicking *** in the PT.

    My argument is that the LA series is not set at the time when the Jedi are at their peak. It's set at a time when the Jedi are "all but extinct". If we have mutliple Jedi in the LA then are we to assume that Ben is simply lying to Luke again?

    As I said, in my experience, the OT is much more popular amongst my age group than the PT. OT had less force users than the PT. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of young people. You seem to be suggesting that the only thing they like about Star Wars are the action scenes involving the Jedi. Some of the best scenes in the films don't involve Jedi are at all. Some of the most popular character's are non-forceusers. That being the case, I don't understand why you think a Star Wars show following the Rebellion or bounty hunters would be automatically a flop.
  14. Darth-Wyrm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2005
    star 1
    I'm not sure I can continue to respond since you clearly don't read my posts. I read everything you write. I may not agree, but I extend you the courtesy of reading what you write.

    You clearly don't extend the same to me since you keep talking about things like "load of force users" and "multiple Jedi". How many times do I need to write that I AGREE that there shouldn't be numerous Jedi or even numerous Force users? I mean seriously?

    I'm asking for ONE protagonist, in what I expect to be a GROUP of protagonists, who is essentially a Jedi on the run. That doesn't run counter to what Ben said does it? "All but extinct" does not mean "completely" does it? How does having ONE Jedi in the story make Ben out to be a liar? We already know that GL SPECIFICALLY ASKED that the comics not kill off Quinlan Vos so that he could be used later right? So CLEARLY there are still Jedi alive right? Good lord.

    I'm also hoping for ONE Sith apprentice who appears ONCE IN A WHILE. Not every episode, not multiple villains, ONE...ONCE IN A WHILE. Is that really that hard to understand?

    I'm going to repeat myself again in hopes you will be able to digest this easily: ONE protagonist (Jedi), and ONE OCCASIONAL villain (Sith apprentice). That's all I'm asking for. When you can understand that, I'll be happy to continue this debate.

    And yes, if there are ZERO force-users on this show, it will flop.
  15. Pizza-the-Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Okay, first of all take a deep breath and chill out a bit.

    Secondly, I did read your posts and you said "at least one lightsaber wielding protagonist", at least one suggests to me, ideally more than one. If I misunderstood that then I apologise, but I have to point out that you have not written that you "AGREE that there shouldn't be numerous Jedi or even numerous Force users?" once in your replies to me. If you can point me to were you have said that then again I will apologise.

    So now that we can move on from that, would you like to address the other points that myself and Zombie raised? You again stated that the series will be a flop if it includes no Jedi/Sith at all. Previously that was based on your assessment of the 18-25 age group. As I am part of that age group and disagree would you like explain further why you are are so sure in this belief?
  16. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Listen. I don't want Jedi or force users. I want rebels and stormtroopers. I'd be more interested seeing a storyline about a stormtrooper who begins to think the Empire might not be that good because of all the atrocities he sees and has to commit. Or a plotline about a guy whos family is brutally murdered by the stormtroopers and he forms a tiny militia. Those are storylines I want to see.

    I don't want to tune in every week to see a podracer getting prepped for a big boring race( sorry guys but if podracing was so good it would've saved The Phantom Menace from its backlash. But guess what, it didn't. The Maul fight is talked about more than Ani's podrace). Or a gangster looking for his shipment of death sticks. That's all I'm saying.

    Pretty much: I don't want force users and I don't want boring crime storylines that lead to nowhere.
  17. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    The show will suck without Jedi and the Force in action. Sorry, but if you don't want Jedi/Lightsabes/Force in any starwars show, you should stop calling yourself a SW fan and stick to startrek.


    Anyhow, this entire argument is pointless since its rather obvious there will be Jedi in the show; how could there not be? Obviously they will be trying to stay low-key, but I am sure at least oneofthe main characters will be a full fleged Jedi. :)

    I have no problem with the podraces. I hope we get to see more of the hutts, more bountyhunters (that trandoshan/lizard-man bounty hunter I hope. I am sick of mandy's)
    More shapeshifters/clawdites too. I hope X-Wings arenot introdcued until a long time, say by the ned of the series. I would much rather we see the more aesthetically appealing ships of the PT, such as the x-wing precussors the clones used in ROTS, the Jedi interceptors, Jedi Aethersprites, etc.

    I vote a big, resounding NO! to the 'secret' apprentice. A silly idea, as it runs counter to many things (only two sith for example). Also I have a sneaking suspicion the new video game will SUCK!

    However, I would not mind if Darth Maul made a return; perhaps his corpse was recovered and re-formed ro something. Or perhaps his hatred unlocked a new force technique that allowed him to regenerate his wounds. Or what have you. Then we could finally have a DM vs DV fight which everyone wants to see. A DM vs OWK II would also be cool.


    Its going to be fun watching the episodes together; fun analyzing each and every episode on these boards while waiting for the next one. I just hope the episodes are self contained, and not a cliffhanger wait until next week type of things.

    All in all, it seems the most exciting days of SW are actually ahead of us, rather than behind us!

    I can't wait! :D

  18. Pizza-the-Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    It's not that I don't enjoy seeing Jedi, it's that I don't think that there's much of a story to tell.

    As I said in a previous post it's possible that some Jedi managed to survive the purge. The problem is that surely, just like Obi-Wan and Yoda, these Jedi would be in hiding? Watching Obi-Wan sitting in a hut wouldn't have made a very good TV show.

    The other alternative I guess would be having a Jedi on the run from the Empire. He/she could "You know, walk the earth, meet people... get into adventures. Like Caine from Kung Fu." I think that could work. Again though, I would still rather see the emergence of the Rebellion. Similar to what Earthknight was talking about. I think that would actually add to the OT and PT storyline. I'm not sure following round some random Jedi would. Call me a Star Trek fan if you must.

    Also, although the show probably will contain Jedi I don't think it's going to be a central theme. Not if the whole Sopranos/Deadwood thing is realised.


    PS: The ROTS tri-wings sucked. X-Wings FTW!

    EDIT:

    Just to add. I was thinking about what Cid was saying about,"i can't think of ONE thing made for SW in the past 20 years (be it video games, comics, books, whatever, ANY tie in of ANY kind) that didn't have force using characters."

    Just in computer games: Pod Racer game, Rogue Squadron games, X-Wing games, Tie Fighter games, Bounty Hunter game, Dark Forces... Among them very good games that sold well.
  19. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    You probably should have told that to Lucasfilm when they made their first three Star Wars television programs, which did not feature Jedi. Though Droids did have one of the characters have a lightsaber.
  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    A SW series/story doesn't need Jedi or Force-users. It shouldn't exclude the possibility, but Rebels, Smugglers and such on their own should be capable of supporting their own story- just look at the OT if you take out the saber duels. ANH would be pretty much the exact same movie (the duel was merely a "buy time" delaying action, not a centerpiece sequence to the plot), ESB has a heavier focus with Luke's training, but the main plot of the movie is the Han/Leia/Falcon story from Hoth to Bespin and their escape. The duel is more center-stage, though, but take that out and it's still 85% the same story), while ROTJ is still 2/3rds a Jabba/Rebel/Imperial story.

    Fans are just as enthralled with the blaster shoot-outs (at least, so long as people are involved and not just droids), dogfights, rogues/smugglers and the Rebel/Imperial conflict as they are with lightsaber duels. Particularly in a TV series, you have a lot more room to give all elements their fair due, but you also don't want to shoehorn in a force user and duel out of some sense that's a mandatory element.

    People suggest that removing the Jedi only leaves Trek or BSG, but that's not really the case. BSG has awesome dogfights and ship battles, but they're completely different than those found in Star Wars, what with the more realistic physics approach and such. It also doesn't focus exclusively on that pilot element, and is much more a dark and deep soap opera between the sci-fi elements. That's not "Star Wars minus Jedi". And the shoot-out Rebel/Imperial & Aliens elements by themselves are definitely not Star Trek. Firefly is probably the most valid comparison, but even then the physics and world-rules are pretty different from SW- "feels a little like SW" is still not "Star Wars minus Jedi".

    That said- I'd be disappointed if we didn't get at least 1 or 2 stories dealing with Jedi on the run. The Jedi doesn't need to be a main character though- in fact I think it'd be a lot more poignant if we have a group of non-Force users we've gotten to know for a bit who then suddenly stumble across a Jedi and see how everyone reacts to the whole "holy crap, a Jedi" wild card. Would some try to turn him/her/it in? Help them? Etc. And by having it be a limited interaction, we could then see the effects such a brief contact had on them- would the Empire or bounty hunters be cracking down on them for only helping a Jedi (as opposed to what could be seen as a more serious crime of sheltering a Jedi)? etc. I wouldn't want to see that storytelling possibility just swept under a rug of exposition and introductions in a pilot movie.


    This was done in a great, non-canon (though aspects are psuedo-canon), comic short story in Star Wars Tales called "Resurrection". Has one of the best Vader scenes in all of SW, too.
  21. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Um, and all three sucked rocks through a straw. It's not a very fair comparison though (LAS to the Ewok movies, that is) and that's why i haven't brought it up.
  22. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    One of the greatest Jedi Knights of all time, General Obi-Wan Kenobi, was basically unheard of by the time ANH rolls around.

    Han Solo doesn't even believe in the Force, and he's been all over the universe. The Jedi have become almost myth-like and a children's story.

    For ANH to be believable, there simply cannot be Jedi running around with lightsabers conquering evil like they used to.

    I think it's quite possible ONE character could be a Force user, but I seriously doubt he or she would be igniting the old lightsaber every episode. They need to stay hidden.
  23. VladTheImpaler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 4
    Ok, let's take this to its extreme.

    Ewoks TV movies: did not have "force" users per se, but definitely had magic and fantasy elements. I'm going to classify that "witch" lady as some kind of dark jedi, because what the heck else could she be?

    Ewok cartoon: same thing. Magic powers that weren't specifically referred to as the force, but surely must have been the same thing.

    The Ewoks cartoon and movies sucked(except for the Gorax battle in Caravan of Courage, which to this day I still think is one of the most convincing "giant" monsters I've ever seen).

    The Star Wars Holiday Special also had force users in Vader and Luke.

    Do you see what I'm getting at? Magic powers and Star Wars TV shows are a bad combination. If the LAS has force users, the show will flop--guaranteed.

    Droids didn't have force users, and I thought it was a perfectly decent cartoon for its time.

    In all seriousness, the SW galaxy has so many aspects. The TV series is a great way to focus on them in ways the movies never could. It would be awfully disappointing if we end up just getting lower budget jedi vs. sith battles.
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Well, to be fair, given what's capable in TV today, I doubt you'd have to worry about a lightsaber duel coming across as "low-budget".

    Actually, that's what she was essentially retconned into being (a Dathomir Nightsister to be precise).
  25. Cid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2007
    star 1
    Not a bunch of them, i agree. But there could be one left in the galaxy. A galaxy is an awful big place. IMO there's room enough for at least one force using baddie, too, though they should only 'duel' at the most crucial times in the show rather than every other episode. I'm talking like once a season, if even that! There doesn't have to be an audience other than us. A duel in the middle of nowhere with almost no-one to see except us doesn't invalidate ANH. Jedi running round Coruscant, however...

    And, i agree on the SA not being in it. I like Sam Whitwer (loved him in the Mist) and woulkdn't mind him on the show, but not as the SA. I mean, have you seen what they have the SA doing in TFU?

    Depends on when the series is set. If it's 2-5 years after ROTS who cares, there could be Jedi running around half the Galaxy at that point. 2-5 years before ANH is a different story.
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