new ob1/vader duel scene!

to masterjabba...

kudos to you! there's just one thing...

i am totally satisified with the entire OT EXCEPT for this ONE SCENE. i do believe that the entire trilogy could be all computer generated, but i don't want that. i firmly believe that this scene could be fixed to fully tie the entire saga and its continuity.

on the other hand, maybe it's just me. maybe i'm just asking for too much. ah well...

cheers.

 

I wouldn't want anything to be added until they develop some better CGI. The Spiderman movie is a good example of our current ability and some of the scenes in it, like the one where they're fighting on the roof, looked kind of fake.

 

ummm what this talk about CG? Obi wan is wearing a HOOD. u CAN'T see vaders face.

So u just get two guys that are the same body sizes as the actor that played vader and the actor that played obi wan.

someone wheres the vader suit and someone wears the jedi outfit. with hood over their face so u can't tell who is under the hood.

WOW was that hard or what? hell i can even do this scene. but i'd rather leave it to lucas. And stop crying about "booo hooo i wont have the original movie on DVD!" to bad. its GL movie. HE wants the whole saga to blend together. and IF this scene is one of the scenes he wants to touch up on i'm TOTALLY for it.

for one it WOULD blend the saga together and it WOULD be an easy fix. (2 stunt man to wear vader suit and wear jedi outfit)

We dont need obi wan jumping on wall, but just to move as fast as dooku. if u watch the yoda dooku fight u'll see dooku dont jump like crazy or anything. he stays on his feet but just moves the saber fast. nothing wrong with that.

I just can't imagine anyone believing that with E1-E3 u have all these fast paste fights. with great jedi warriors and then all of a sudden u get the chosen one and the very powerful obi wan for a REMATCH! and what do they do? basically jerk off. i dont have any jedi powers but i bet u i can block mostly all the attack vader did on obi wan. thats how slow they were.

 

to jmaster luke...

exactly! kudos to ya!

trust me! the fix would greatly improve the saga as a whole!

 

And stop crying about "booo hooo i wont have the original movie on DVD!"

Why should we not complain? Personally I blame whiny FX spoiled ppl like you for the whole Special Edition craptacular in the first place.

There was nothing wrong with these films as they were, and there never will be.

 

I was mostly being sarcastic when I said about Obi Wan running on walls, sorry if you took it seriously. Also, what is all this about it "not blending together with the PT?" It perfectly fits in the PT. Listen, the PT is about the height of the Jedi at their tops, alas the powerfull Jedi. The OT is about the "dark times" as a member here well put it. Obi Wan hasn't done anything for years, his abilities have diminished, it is a bad time, a dark time. The only thing I can think of is Vader, he could indeed be perhaps a little more powerfull, but I still wouldn't change a thing.

 

uhh...for the record...

the OT-SE was never the fx-crazed fan's fault. lucas did that all on his own because he felt it was the time to test the tech of ILM...and because he wanted to FIX/FINISH them.

again, what could it possibly hurt?

cheers.

 

yeah, i'm ready to give up on all those old movies the way they were. now that we have the tech, why not go back and put a lovable talking pie in cool hand looke, or reshoot scenes for the wizard of oz with stunt doubles so that it looks modern?
please, star wars is a classic, and it's not about jedi's flipping around or jumping high or anything like that. there's no use debating this absurd subject because it's not going to happen.
the fight is good the way it is. vader never did any fast movements in his old age, so why should he in this one battle?
did you consider the fact that they were testing each other, just warming up for the real fight? looke walks into frame, and for some reason obi wanted looke to see him die, maybe so he wouldn't get killed waiting for him to get on the ship.
nothing needs changing in this battle. not the effects, not the movements, not even the little piece of lint on obi's robe. it's ruint enough as it is with the se.

 

Now that GL has shown Dooku (isn't he around 65 or 70 yrs old?) to have better speed and agility than either Ben(60) or Vader(40) in ANH, tinkering with their duel just might happen. It looks like GL might have rethought his earlier conviction that Ben and Vader weren't capable of a more physically intense battle. I doubt we'll ever see Vader doing any flips in ANH, especially since he'd just hit his head on the ceiling of the corridor they are in. GL might just want to insert some faster attacks/parries.
I'm undecided about how I feel about it. I think it will look slightly out of sync when the films arre watched in 1-6 order, with and even older man in AOTC able to fight Yoda (who is the oldest AND fastest of anyone we've seen so far).

Though, it's funny to see fans attacking other fans for liking new CGI FX. Because, if I remember correctly, oh yes, ANH's graphics were well advanced for its time! Its the exact same thing. You enjoyed the graphics as they were the best that had been seen up to that time. New fans are doing the very same.

And tossing around arrogant and pompus declarations won't make your argument any more convincing or valid.

 

I think the Vader/Ben-fight in ANH somewhat resembles the Dooku/Obi-Wan-fight in AOTC. No jumping around, just pure sword technique.
If it is to be fixed, then make it just a little faster and intense, it shouldn´t take too much work!

 

liking cgi is one thing. inserting it into old, classic films is another thing entirely. like you said, the fx for star wars were breakthrough at the time, so to go back and fix them is to belittle their worth, and their place in film history.

 

No, to go back and fix them is to enhance them.

 

hey, as long as i've got my thx versions i don't care if he turns yoda into an 800 lb ewok, makes vader completely cgi in every scene in the films, makes obi do fantastic whirls and spins and fast movements in cramped corridors, turns the death star in to a big ball of head cheese, or turns chewie into jar jar. whatever. it's the new millennium, so why not go back and deficate on old things that came out in the late 70's and early 80's?

 

to gay-len...and lars muul...

exactly! my point is not to change the whole saga. i strongly believe that modifying this ONE SCENE will greatly improve/enhace/tie the entire saga.

the modified scenes will only take a few seconds from the movie. there shouldn't be any difficulty in achieving this at all.

cheers.

again, i never meant for ob1 and vader to be olympian gymnists. i just want them to be more elegant, graceful, and faster. for god's sakes, they did it with a much older dooku! why not with old ben?

cheers.

 

"so to go back and fix them is to belittle their worth, and their place in film history."


Thats just ludicrous.

These are Lucas' creations. Its his story. He has said before that he was displeased with parts of them when they were released. He doesn't care in the slightest if you were happy with it.

You never have to purchase or watch any other version he produces. There are ways available to record from tapes to VCDs legally, so you can have which ever version you prefer most, forever. So if you really believe he is just editing them to make more money, you don't have to give him any more of yours and encourage him.

It is too confusing to hear so much self contradiction on these boards. People whine that GL is a hack and the worst director ever. The they turn around and call the OT films classics that are masterpieces, the epitomy of film making perfected. No one looks at the Mona Lisa painting and calls it a masterpiece to then say Leo DeVinci is a talentless joke.

I personaly wouldn't compare ANH or ROTJ to the Mona Lisa, but with comments like "their place in film history," it sounds like this is the standard people are holding them up to.

 

Looking at this and your other thread, I could easily draw the conclusion you just don't like Alec Guinness.

 

Why in the world would Obi wan not work on his Jedi skills when he is on Tattoonie for 20yrs?

He knows yoda and him are the last Jedi left. Ben would be pretty stupid to lighten up on his skills. he knows luke is growning up and that he would have to train him.

Doesn't luke call ben "old wizard" hmm i could be wrong about that. but if ben is called a wizard (again i can't remember if he was referred as a wizard for sure) then that must mean ppl have seen ben use some magic. there for keeping up with his Jedi powers.

And same with Vader. he was obsessed with being the strongest force user "one day i will be the strongest jedi ever" so now that the jedi are gone i would think Vader is trying to become the greatest. not easing up on his skills.

so these to warriors should be no slower then yoda dooku fight

 

Something to keep in mind. Dooku was a Master Jedi, the same as Yoda. Obi-Wan in Episode IV was not. Obi-Wan couldn't shoot lightning from his finger tips like Dooku or Yoda. Plus, Vader had said during their duel in Episode IV that "your powers are weak, old man." This could explain why Obi-Wan couldn't move as fast in IV. Dooku was very strong with the Force, as was Yoda, which could explain why they were still able to move so fast at such an old age in II. Just a though.

 

i imagine quite a few people would be slightly perturbed if da vinci decided to go back 20 years after finishing the painting and painting a moustache on the poor girl, or michelangelo putting a nice little caption on the ceiling of the cistene chapel that says, "pull my finger"
van gogh incorporating photograhpic images into starry night

like i said, whatever. i have the thx versions (on what media i'm not at liberty to say) and of course i'll buy the archival editions, but i doubt he's going to affect this scene in this way.
there's a big thread on the upcoming archival set, and it points out that most of the new footage will be enhanced scenes that were cut out before. and if you don't think star wars has a place in film history, then you, gay, are the one who's thinking ludicrous.
these movies, and their effects, set a model for many movies that followed.
i would love to see some new scenes, but the one proposed on this thread i do not agree with.
no reason to get upset, chums, just having a debate.

i never said lookas was a bad director, merely disagreed with the ideas proposed at the beginning of this thread. no reason go get offensive and start calling people whiny. seems a popular trend on these forums to resort to name-calling when someone doesn't agree with you.

 

to jmaster luke...

touche! unlike some other posters (*cough*zeek...*cough*) you've made your point well. kudos. (gives you a formal salute)

but i still stand on my ground ot have lucas fix that ONE SCENE.

cheers.

 

to zeek...

you're absolutely correct that SW does have a place in film history. however, lucas has modified and will still be modifying his classics. my question to you is: how would you feel about lucas as an artist if he were to alter this ONE SCENE? just a bit curious...and please be honest and constructive.

cheers.

 

"Personally I blame whiny FX spoiled ppl like you for the whole Special Edition craptacular in the first place. "
-Count_Drew-ku

Yeah, ekv. I called people whiney. Saying people have whined is not calling them that. There is a difference. And if one looks at Drew_ku's post, you will actually see a mild flame there.

Thats a terrible analogy. That is assuming the creator would edit with the intention to disfigure his creation. That certainly isn't was GL is doing. It may be your opinion, but it certainly isn't comparable to a "pull my finger" joke.

Moreover, I didn't say it didn't have a place. I said it is hardly a masterpiece to be heralded the way some people around here revere it. Quite different.
And making exaggerations won't prove your point either.

 

to impressive clone...

nice one. (gives you a formal salute)

cheers.

 

honestly, *cough* ewok *cough*
i think that whatever lucas chooses to do with his movies is his prerogative. i respect his artistic vision as i always have, even though i think he rushed through the se's and didn't properly complete them (plus i like the old songs better, but georgie's just not a musician, so that's all on williams) i would love to see new scenes take place. it's easy to take the side of people that agree with you and say that they're rebuttals have been thoroughly explained, but it's a bit harder to read a disagreement and agree to civilly disagree. (did i say agree enough times in that sentence?)

so here goes: the reason that scene works the way it does and not any other way (and is also unlikely to change) is because 1) the corridors are cramped and don't allow for much movement
2) vader is more machine than man, and not very capable with the fast-pased action, as we see in rotj when looke kicks the sith out of him once he gets into a fast-paced frenzy
3) "your powers are weak, old man" obi, as evidenced by vader, has not aged as well as dooku did. though he is strong in the force he's not giving it his all. he's stalling vader so that the others can get away, and then he plans to die.
4) they haven't spoken in 20 some years, and they're having their final conversation

i'm sure i could think of more reasons, given the time...

i wasn't going to post in this thread anymore, but since you addressed me twice i figured i must rebut.

 

well i'm taking off for a small vacation. so i can't be here to back this thread up anymore. so i might as well put my 2c info in here once more.

Yoda makes fun of dooku "u have much to learn my old apprentice" and as we can see from the fight dooku took on anakin and obi wan. Dooku IS very powerful in the force but NOT as powerful as yoda. Yoda basically ment to me at least "u must be kidding to think that your few yrs of training can equal my skills"

Vader of course IS the strongest force user by the time ANH comes out. (not sure if he's stronger then the emperor)

I'm guessing that when anakin and obi wan fight in E3 the fight will be close. i can't see obi wan just destroying anakin, and we know anakin aint gonna win the fight. so the fight will be close
So by the time ANH comes out Vader would of surpassed obi wan "your powers are weak old man" obi wan IS strong but weak compared to vader.

And i dont think Yoda could of use the electricity power if dooku didn't shoot him first. Yoda just made the electricity bounce back to dooku. like a mirror, but yoda didn't product the electricity all by himself.

And movies are not like paintings. and nor is it like wizard of oz. If wizard of oz was a 6 movie saga that continued till this day and was ment to be a continuation i'm sure that the director would want to do a few touches here and there to Oz.

But no other movie has EVER done what star wars is doing. Not even star trek. Star Trek is not a continuation. The original TV show and the movies are really different. but ones a TV show and the other is a movie. so thats different then trying to compare OT to the PT.

the OT and the PT have to blend in order to make it believable. And i'm not saying if this ANH fight scene ain't fixed then the saga wont blend, but it sure would make it more believable.

U can excuse the luke vs vader fights cuz luke is a rookie and u can tell vader is playing around with luke. and in ROTJ Vader has the conflict and he doesn't want to kill luke, and luke doesn't want to fight. so neither of them are on top of their game.

but in ANH Vader WANTS to kill ben. so why would he be trying to kill him by attacking with a swing that could be stopped by a non force user?

hmmm can't think of anything else for now. but i g2g now. gotta drive 10hrs to montreal. hope this thread is still going on when i come back sunday. peace