[New (Old) Game!] Around the Arena - New Game signups under way!

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by Darth McClain, Mar 4, 2010.

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  1. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    I just realized that I didn't update the standings after 'sey pinch judged. :oops:

    Here are our current standings for Around the Arena:

    Marcus: 18
    Trimaj: 10
    J_J: 8
    Trikes: 7
  2. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    MVPs have no effect on LeBron's decision to stay or go. He plays for his hometown team, competing for titles as a local hero and national superstar. If he leaves, it will be for one reason - money. The Knicks are terrible and even in a best case scenario (say Chicago) he'd be in exactly the same situation as Cleveland, basketball-wise. He's already going to be the highest paid player in the league next contract so more or less MVPs don't = more money. And I don't think he'd be the type to ditch Cleveland for cash anyway (though I used to think Woods was squeaky-clean...). So in conclusion, James could win 8 MVPs without it having any effect on what he decides to do.

    Now, are they devalued by him not winning a title? A little bit. If he wants the title of greatest ever, then he needs to win a couple at least. Think back to the 90s....Malone wins the MVP, and then Jordan and the Bulls destroy Malone and the Jazz in the Finals. You look back now, and people think 'Jordan was the real MVP that year'. Of course, there is no player as dominant as Jordan was, except maybe LeBron himself. So while I don't think there's anyone right now who you could say 'he should've been the MVP' even if his team wins the title, if LBJ doesn't get a title those MVPs are going to ring a little hollow.


    (FWIW, I've never really bought the 'Most Valuable Player' title anyways. How do you judge if Kurt Warner is more valuable to the Cardinals than Manning to the Colts? Or Troy Polamalu to the Steelers? Durant to the Thunder? If you bring in winning more games, then you become reliant on the team. Granted, this is less important in basketball, where one player can take over a game or series (stupid 2006 Finals), but it's why I prefer the 'best and fairest' designation used in Australian Rules football or 'most outstanding' used for the Heisman'.)
  3. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    oh, if i may, i would like to add something to my comment about his MVP's being worth less if he doesn't win a championship: players win MVPs and awards, teams win championships. that's why if he doesn't win it doesn't devalue those awards, because it means that the team failed, not necessarily lebron. one player may be able to take over for a series, but that doesn't work through the entire playoffs. he doesn't score every point for the cavs, and for that reason it's not only his championship if they win, it's the teams.
  4. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Member Since:
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    star 6
    If the team quality has no MVP bearing...when's the last time a mid-tier team had the MVP? I'm not saying that winning MVPs means nothing...but if the Cavs don't win the championship, it'll be worth a little less.
  5. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    guess we just have a fundamentally different view on that one marcus. that actually wasn't aimed at what you said at all, thought of it before i read your post.:p

    but while you say that, it does remind me of an axiom from the NFL: offense wins games, defense wins championships. that's just as true of an MVP award type deal. MVP's win games, but teams win championships. true, it might be game seven of the finals that the MVP wins you but it sure as hell took more than just that one player to get there. as you said, it takes better than mediocre talent, but on the flip-side, when's the last time an MVP won a championship without a pretty good supporting cast around him? look at jordan. he was obviously the best player in the league most of the early nineties, but it took a TEAM to get him that first championship. he couldn't do it by himself. but that sure as hell doesn't lessen what jordan did any. just like nash not winning a championship with the suns doesn't lessen what he did, because he got them to where they had a chance at a championship, but the team failed him. they ran into a better TEAM in the spurs, and lost. so to me what i say stands, an MVP is good, great even, but it isn't enough on it's own to win a championship, so if they don't win this year then it's the team that failed, not a player singular. and that's what the MVP is, a single player.

    but i do agree with you on one thing, the MVP is a pretty... inaccurate award in most sports. as you said, there isn't really much of a way to say how much more valuable warner was to the cards in comparison to manning with the colts... most of the time. but every once in a while you do get to see how big of a difference that one player makes. that year i mentioned where manning won it after all the injuries and losing to the chargers in the playoffs by something like a field goal, manning was the most valuable player that year unquestionably. they had everyone healthy at the start of the year and couldn't win, literally COULD NOT WIN, until manning get's his game back, and then they make it into the playoffs. that is the definition of valuable right there. but that's an entirely different topic, so i'll not say anymore.
  6. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Ooh, back and forth banter, I like it! :cool: I'm going to give Trikes some more time to respond, and then we'll move on to the next phase of the game.
  7. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

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    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    he was obviously the best player in the league most of the early nineties, but it took a TEAM to get him that first championship.

    I'd just like to point out that Jordan's Bulls won in 91, 92 and 93. Might have been better had you said the late eighties. :p

    And I guess we are looking at it differently. As an individual accomplishment, not winning the championship has no effect - nobody's going to think he's a worse player (though how many people think Peyton Manning is better than Joe Montana, despite his 4 to 2 MVP advantage?) To Lebron personally, they'll be devalued if he doesn't win a championship. Peyton would probably trade a couple of his MVPs for Brady's rings.
  8. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    yea, late eighties.:p but it does actually still work, because it was when he won his championships. so i wasn't technically wrong.;) i hadn't really looked at it in a while honestly. but just look at jordan's explosion against the celtics as proof that even a player taking over a game isn't enough, even one of jordan's caliber.

    oh, i don't dispute that they'd probably trade them at all. but not getting them doesn't effect what they did that season. the MVP is for the season, not the playoffs. the playoffs are a very different beast, because any team can have a bad game. any team can play out of their mind and beat a good team. especially in football. but since we're talking basketball, sometimes teams get hot and go on runs. we've seen that happen repeatedly. and i say again, they don't devalue because the MVP is about what lebron did this season. what happens in the playoffs does NOT devalue what he did in the season, he was obviously the best player. but he doesn't necessarily have the best team, as was seen when he was out the last four games. admittedly that isn't the sample, but they won more games the entire season, james sits and we see four losses in a row. james, at present, is obviously hurt. he mentioned it and is trying to ignore it, at least what he's saying, but his actions are speaking a lot louder, as is the way he's playing. he's tentative to start the last two games. he didn't shoot worth anything the last game. if they do not win a championship it is a TEAM failing, and james is not the entire team. and if anyone honestly thinks james won't eventually win a championship they're smoking something. the man is 25, he still has time. if he NEVER wins a championship, then and only then, will the MVPs be devalued. in the exact same way people would devalue peyton manning's had he never won a super bowl.
  9. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Alright, this is the end of the opening round of the second game of Around the Arena.

    Let's get a quick recap of the scores so far!

    Marcus is leading with 18 points. Trimaj is in second, with 10. Trika and Jedi_Johnson are moving backwards, at 7 and 8 points respectively.



    Let's see what Marcus and Trimaj had to say this time. I'm just going to grade from the initial post, but I love the extra banter, too.

    Trimaj: Yep, I agree. LeBron's MVP doesn't mean that he'll be leaving. He has been having a lot of "back to the roots" moments recently (+ 3). Interesting comparison to Jordan (+ 3). I agree, if the Cavs don't win the NBA championship, his MVP season won't have been in vain (+ 3).

    Marcus: Yep, I still agree that that same point (+ 3) :p I agree that LeBron has to deliver a championship at some point, but not necessarily this year. (+ 3) MVP is a tricky thing, and I think that Most Outstanding Player would probably be a better award. (+ 3).

    Trikes: She showed up and has explained her situation (+ 3). Sorry, Jedi_Johnson. He's not logged in since last month, so Trikes will move on to the next round.

    Updated standings for Around the Arena...

    Marcus: 21
    Trimaj: 13
    Trikes: 10
    Jedi_Johnson: 7


    We'll be having a mysterious guest-host for the next three-ish weeks, since I'll be semi-incommunicado in Italy until June 1. Play nice for whoever it is!
  10. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I believe you forgot to add some of those scores properly :p As I read your previous post, it looks like it should be

    Marcus: 27
    Trimaj: 19
    Trikes: 10
    Jedi_Johnson: 7 (eliminated)

    The new host will be decided shortly :)
  11. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Like I've said before, math really isn't my strong point. [face_whistling]
  12. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
  13. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    We'll be up and running in the morning with a showdown between Trimaj and Marcus! :) Thanks for putting up with these delays and difficulties over the last month. We're looking forward to getting back in action here at Around the Arena.
  14. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Here's our first topic in The Showdown. [face_cowboy]


    We're heading for Game 7!

    [image=http://www.micromixx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Lakers-Vs-Celtics-NBA-Finals-2010-Game-2-Live-Scores-and-Results-June-6-2010-300x235.jpg]

    Last night, the Lakers were all over the Celtics. Who is your pick to win game 7 on Thursday night, the defending champs or the team from Beantown? If the Lakers are to win, who needs to have the biggest game? Same thing for the Celtics.

    Let's start off with Marcus.


    Make sure to get your answers in by Tip Off on Thursday night.
  15. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    OK, let's do this.

    My pick - as much as I hate it (though to be fair I despise both these teams and wish someone else would win an NBA title for a change), is the Lakers. Basically impregnable at home except for one slipup they immediately rectified these playoffs, and just killed off any momentum the Celtics may have had with that embarrassement. Plus Perkins is gone, a big loss.

    Now, as to who has to have the biggest game, I'm not going to say Kobe. That's obvious, and he's probably going to throw down 30+ points in any case. He always does, and the Lakers don't always win. Of course if he was to shoot 50... but no. I'm going to say the bench has to step up, rather than any one particular player. Both teams are so loaded with superstarts that any one player having a great game may not necessarily be enough. The Celtics can score points from anywhere (Pierce, Allen and Garnett have all been top scorers this series, and just ask Cavs fans about Rondo), so you can't rely on your starters shutting down the opposition or outscoring easily. They'll need plenty of points and defensive hustle from the second five- just look at game 6, their bench outscored the Celtics 24-0 in the first 3 quarters, pretty much ending the game. Going close to a repeat performance will seal the deal for them.

    As for Boston, where to start...much the same applies. But I'm going to pick out Kevin Garnett. He needs to shut out Gasol, and paint and board dominance will go a long way towards a Celtics victory. This showed in Game 5- despite Kobe going completely ballistic the dominance of Garnett over Gasol meant it didn't mean much in the end, with the Celtics scoring at will and getting critical rebounds. Shutting out Gasol and pouring in some points of his own are key to the green team.

    That said, I hope there's a freak accident and the Finals are cancelled. :p
  16. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks, Marcus!

    And now on to Trimaj.
  17. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Well, I'm not quite sure what happened to Trimaj, but the game is over, and the Lakers beat the Celtics. Point goes to Marcus.

    Time for a new topic...the recent NCAA conference shakeup.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/NCAA_logo.svg/200px-NCAA_logo.svg.png]

    It looks like things aren't going to be changing much after a wild few days. Are these new conference alignments good for college athletics, or only about the money?

    Let's lead off with Trimaj this time.
  18. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Well, since it's been over 48 hours (nearly 72), I'm going to pass the mike over to Marcus.
  19. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i'm sorry, i completely forgot about this. i think i'll just withdraw and give it to marcus, because i have absolutely no opinion about the NCAA realignment what-so-ever. my apologies, the break just really kinda made it difficult for me to sustain any momentum with this.

  20. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Fair enough, Trimaj. Thanks for playing!


    Alright, Marcus, it's time for Facetime!
  21. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    My Facetime is going to require some YouTube action, which I can't do at work, so it will come later tonight.
  22. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Awesome...I look forward to it.
  23. MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 6
    Since the World Cup seems to have made some Americans more receptive to new football codes :D I'm going to use my facetime to discuss the greatest code of football in the world...
    Australian Rules Football!

    This fast paced game, practically unique in requiring hand and foot skills equally, is played around the world, but obviously the largest participation is in Australia, with the major professional league, the Australian Football League.

    Now, in this limited time frame, I can't explain the fine nuances of free kicks, hands in the back, holding the ball and kicking in danger, so I'll give you the basics- you score by kicking the ball between two goal posts at either end of an oval (converted cricket grounds, so about 150m long). You can progress the ball in any direction by dropkicking, or by handpassing (holding the ball in one hand and striking with the other). Goals are worth six points; if it travels over the goal line in any way other than a kick by the attacking team, the attackers get 1 point.

    Essentials to Australian rules:

    Marks- catching the ball on the full from a kick. A spectacular one is known as a 'speccy'.
    Here are some good ones from the 90s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtm9AVjqTUc&feature=fvw However you could watch for hours, there are many that are great =)
    However, this epic one by Burton of the Crows (my team!) I was lucky to witness in person is the largest leap I've ever seen. Tippett, the Crow he is jumping on, is 6'7".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJN3z8AvzPU&feature=related

    Goals - scored from anywhere...spectacular ones are usually the domain of small forwards, though nothing's really as awesome as Malcolm Blight's 80m torpedo kick to win a final.
    Some nice ones from 08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qClMr4JJICM

    Hits - it's perfectly legal to get an opponent out of your way by charging through them. These guys aren't as big as NFL players but they aren't wearing pads, so if someone gets wiped out, they really get wiped out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BOzQwj4fSE
    Now, this has been cut down in recent seasons with a focus on less head high contact, but it still happens.
    I also saw this happen...I thought Davis had died. (Sandilands is 7 feet tall and around 300 pounds.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YChfAG7vLUE

    So, get some knowledge about this wonderful game!


  24. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks for the links, Marcus! Australian Rules Football seems pretty exciting, that's for sure!
  25. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Because of challenges with the summer season, we're going to have a championship round between Darth Dark Helmet and MarcusP2. The winner receives one week of VIP, title, and custom colors.

    This championship edition of Around the Arena will be modified from the rules listed in the opening post; it'll basically be an extended version of The Showdown. There will be five topics of discussion, instead of the usual three.

    Our first topic is baseball...sort of.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0a/2010_G-20_Toronto_summit_logo.svg/1000px-2010_G-20_Toronto_summit_logo.svg.png]

    The Blue Jays playing a home game in Philadelphia? Yes, sports fans, that is correct. Due to the G-20 Summit in Toronto this weekend, the Phillies - Blue Jays series shifted from north of the border to the City of Brotherly Love. Is this a huge blunder for MLB and its fan base?

    Let's go to our two champions and see what they think. Darth Dark Helmet, you're up first.
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