Discussion in 'Communications' started by Padme Bra, Jun 2, 2001.
Very good post, maukid. I just can't understand why other people can't grasp that.
"Now thinking as a mod, wouldn't you think it easier to just close that one thead and have our religious friends just buy a Bible?"
Then wouldn't it also be easier to just close all of the Star Wars line by line threads and have our fellow fans go buy a copy of the movie/script/book/radio drama?
You just ignored every single point I made in my last post and addressed my last sentence out of context. With those kinds of flawed debating skills I can't believe you get very many converts.
No, I understood what you said, and I think you're right, but then why not get rid of the other line by line threads? People can just go watch the movies if they wanna know what happens.
Believe me, I would love nothing more than to see those SW line by line threads go away but despite what you think of us based on this policy, we are not here to tell people what they can or can't post that doesn't break the rules. Our restrictions on non-rule breaking subject matter begins and ends with religious topics. So the analogy with the SW word by word threads does not apply.
Here's a possible compromise:
TrainingforUtopia[\b], create a SW/religious/sensitive subject message board on EZ-board.
Then ask the admins and/or mods to allow you to post one subject telling JCers that if they would like to talk about those subjects to please join that board where all of you can talk together. It can then be either locked or removed after a week or two.
1. Gives you a place to be able to post religious threads
2. Allows members you already know to join you there so you don't have to meet all new people.
3. Let's people know that there is an off-shoot JC board out there that may interest them
4. Solves most of the issues that are being brought up.
1. I don't know how to start my own EZBoard.
2. If I did, people would post porn and stuff on it. Porn=bad.
Sooooo.... you don't want to make your own ez-board in part because you don't want to have to moderate it?
1. There are others out here who can.
2. Have some trusted friends work as moderators.
If porn is your concern you can have someone setup a general forum for new people and have that moderated. Then restrict access to your other forums and only allow those posters you are comfortable with access. Plus EZ-baord has an online help section you can use to set things up(although I've never tried using it).
You can setup a list of specific users with an EZBoard so you can only allow those you trust in and nobody should (in theory) be posting any porn via that way.
Follow the instructions.
Yep, TFU, you can set up the EZboard as password protected so that users would need to request password from you before they could post. And that would make it easier for you to moderate, too.
Good luck with your message board.
One doesn't get nearly the number of potential converts from a group of people who voluntarily go to a religion based EZBoard as they would from a group of Star Wars fans who happen to wander into a reigion thread.
I mean that is what it boils down to isn't it?
Um not quite (at least IMHO). There's just all that many more people here at the JC then would ever be crammed into an EZ board. More members=more diverse views =more interesting discussion. In all likelihood a EZ board would collect only a small handful of views, and eventually we'd all get bored of discussing with each other.
And I still don't understand how members *wander* into a religous thread. You'd think if they saw a thread titled "The Validity of the Bible" for instance they might reach the conclusion: religous views may be mentioned here, if I can't handle others explaining there personal spiritual viewpoint without feeling offended or a need to convert maybe I shouldn't enter this thread.
Can we talk about sexuality here, too? Sure, some people would be offended by it, but they could just stay out of those threads. I'm sure with heavy moderation, we could have mature, interesting discussions.
Why should I have to go elsewhere to discuss such things which are a natural part of everyday life?
abortion, capital punishment, gun rights, the environment, economics, polygamy; other topics that many a member gets upset and offended by yet they continue to float around why them and not religion?
OK, I did a quick search of Yahoo and came up with all kinds of ideas for sexuality threads. They won't be pornographic and they can be handled with maturity if properly moderated.
Why should I have to go to another website to discuss the fetish of corsetry or leather or plushies? I want to discuss it right here, with SW fans. Sexuality *is* a part of SW. Han and Leia kissed. Anakin and Padme had sex, for crying out loud. They had to. They had the twins. And speaking of the twins, they were pretty close to incest there a couple of times.
Now I realize that I *could* go to a website to discuss incest, but really, I want to discuss it here. It relates to SW after all, in a fashion.
I never liked sarcasm much it always seems (maybe unintentionally) designed to make the target look stupid.
Simply put the JC can't be a PG-ish site with sex (even after the revolution its too taboo) yet it is possible to be family friendly with a seperate board peacefully discussing religion and philosophy.
I wasn't being sarcastic, I was trying to draw a parallel. What seems obvious in one light, seems less obvious when spun a different way. And I have asked, repeatedly, what, in any of tear's posts, you all (who want the religious discussion) specifically disagree with.
I have yet to see his eloquent argument specifically addressed.
edit: You see, I could make an argument why sexuality would be alright to discuss here and still be kept family friendly. Yet I don't think you would like that. And I wouldn't either, because I know it would be impossible to adequately moderate and would quickly degenerate into something not family friendly. People would be offended. People are offended by the religious threads that turn hostile and degenerate. You see them as too different things, I think, because you want one and not the other. I see them as being equally problematic, but for different reasons. The end result though, is the same.
"As a freeloading customer, I deserve to have a say!!!"
Religion threads are different because it is based more on opinions and has a greater chance of flaming, and overall it has extra problems. If you keep complaining you'll get your way and we won't be able to discuss anything but kissing Jotuns butt, or survivor or, how annoying the latest pop sensation is.
Just go with it. You're going to give yourself a heartattack over nothing.
The key word in your post, k_h is "peacefully". Unfortunately the threads do not always stay peaceful. If they did, I'm sure they'd stay. Since they don't, however, and since religion is so close to the hearts of individuals, it is different than the other controversial topics.
Furthermore, abortion, gun control and the like, are all subjects that can be rationally argued, since there are facts and statistics that can be pointed to as back up. Religion is unique in that it is faith that brings and keeps people believers.
Faith is, by it's nature, personal. There is nothing else quite like it.
As to those who say that this will just the first subject banned, I'll point this out; at one time religious discussion *was* banned. And yet all the other subjects continued unabated. So JC history does not back you up on this theory.
And since this thread keeps turning in circles, I'm leaving it now. Bye!
I guess that's one of the primary problems I have with the ban: its being enacted primarily because certain members are incapable of showing maturity and understanding towards others beliefs. Why should that force those of us who are interested in actual debate from discussing? Its the old tossing the baby out with the bathwater problem, all are punished for a minorities uncivilty. How do we keep threads peaceful? I have no clue...I guess that's why I'm not an admin . But surely there were other, less drastic courses that could have been taken (more warnings and bannings for users who get out of hand ?) instead of removing the whole lot.
Religion isn't always a spiritual thing, facts can be used to back it up (if not very few would have remained believers after the Enlightenment and other advances that led humans to trust fact and science first) and more often than not people are remarkably set in their ways on other controversial issues (abortion etc.), believing they are right, and not listening to facts very much.
Maybe I should make this my signature until it sinks in. The problems caused by religion threads are not limited to the breaking of rules in the strictest sense. A religious discusion in this forum can cause animoisty and divisiveness in the community and downright offend virtually everyone without breaking any rules. So it's either close these threads for no 'legitimate' reason, or stop the root of the problem. We chose the latter.
I agree with the ban on religious threads. It detracts from community and Padme is right in that it divides people. Just look at how divided people are in this thread alone. We can't even discuss the POSSIBILITY of religious discussion without getting into heated arguments.
We all come here to this site because we have a mutual love of Star Wars. In that we are all equal. But by having all of these religious threads, the members get separated into sections OR get left out entirely. No, not every thread is for everyone, but religion is very, very personal and people take it very seriously. It's very easy to offend other members even when that may not have been your intent.
I support the idea of an ezboard being created for those topics, with a link posted here, as a compromise solution (from my perspective, anyway). It's not that hard to create, and people can't post porn unless they want their rear kicked by ezboard management, as the Slackers found out.