New possible rule for NS -- discussion!!

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Mr. P, Jun 28, 2001.

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  1. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    Alright... I've been thinking.

    The Official Site, Insider, and all sorts of other official stuff have been giving out lots and lots of information about Episode II this time. They have been telling us lots of stuff, giving us lots of pictures, update, and all. However, I think that at some point this may be too much and might comprimise our non-spoilerness. Last time around, with TPM, the OS gave away the Crawl, and lots of other stuff when we got real close. Also, toy boxes with their little descriptions on the back gave away lots of info, and much info was given away in newspaper articles and the like -- which was officially released, or else LFL would have had a beef with them.

    I think that at some point we should say, "enough". Right now anything officially released is not considered a spoiler. In the future this will include much, much more than we have now -- and already there is a lot of information that has been officially released. I think that at some point -- I would say when the Trailer is released -- we should say, "enough", and put a cap on officially released information.

    By that, I would mean that no more officially released information. All information released after that point, be it official or non-official, would be consdered "spoilers". Of course, the stuff that was already released would still be non-spoiler material... but, waht do you think? I think that it is necessary, and that if we don't then we'll end up like the spioler forum in here, because it seems as if the OS will give away a ton of information this time around.

    And I've already gotten complaints that this is like an "official spoiler" forum.

    What do you think about this idea? Discuss!

    --Mr. P :cool:
  2. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    I agree that some of the official stuff is spoiler material. But I hope the trailers can be discussed here.

    The soundtrack was a big spoiler, as well as the novel (actually, the novel is different, it IS the story, and therefore, anything in it is a spoiler)
  3. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    Of course the trailer would be up for discussion... my idea is that anything released after the trailers would be considered spoilers.

    --Mr. P :cool:
  4. Ice Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 3
    I think anything released as of January 1 2002 should be conciered a spoiler. 4.5 months is not a long time. But in that span i think most of the offical information will be spoilers.

    The only acception would be the trailers. I think the second one will probably be released after the beginig of the new yoear.




    --Ice Jedi--
    Are You A Freak?
    Do I have to smurf the dishes?
    SPOILER-FREE 'TILL EPISODE III
  5. Dom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2000
    star 4
    Just a suggestion. I raised it some time ago, noting that a lot of official info has come out, but it was dismissed on the basis the people trust LFL about what is spoiler and not.

    You could create identified Hard-Core Non Spoiler threads (all starting with HCNS or whatever)where members who don't read the Insiders, don't watch the videos, don't plan to watch the trailers etc. can discuss the topics of their choice without fear of being thrown official info they don't want to know about, counting on everyone's good will and solid administrative measures when needed to keep it totally clean.

    The rest of the forum could probably stay as it is until the trailers, the toys and the marketing campaign calls for new rules.

    Truth is that the majority of the threads are centered on the newly released official info - the forum might rapidly dwindle too not much if you forbid it as for a good part of the NS people it will lose its interest and in some case might even lead them to less safer places for discussions. Within a month or two you will also have a lot of problems partaking the huge amount of information of what is new and older official information - especially since most of it like the OS is not dated.

    HCNS threads would be easier to administrate.

    Edit : And I concur with what Pedro said. You don't really know as much as some think you know and if what you learned as of now worries you of being spoiled then it may be that it could be better for you not to focus too much on the next episode at all and visit TPM or OT boards - or hardcore non-spoiler threads ;).
  6. Pedro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 1999
    star 4

    I've already gotten complaints that this is like an "official spoiler" forum.
    Well, that's between y'all, but yeah, I kinda had that same opinion when I first came here -- I was a little surprised at the amount of information deemed acceptable (and yet also a little surprised at how little you knew -- "spoiler" as it's used here doesn't necessarily have anything at all to do with the idea of some element that would actually "spoil" the film's plot points for someone, which is a little weird).

    Then again, I guess if somebody was really fanatical about not being spoiled, then they wouldn't be on an internet message board, huh? So my original reading was probably off a bit.

    That being said...you don't know too much. Really. Yes, the amount of information known is obviously a function of time; but at best, being unspoiled, you'll only ever know bits of "what" and "where" (with big gaps in there, concerning both of them). But you probably won't really know the important one, "why." Which I think is significant. Then again, some people get all up in arms over lightsaber colors...

    Another thing to keep in mind is that the plot is more complex this time around, so there's necessarily a limit to a lot of the things that you can really figure out, having not been spoiled (trust me, on a lot of this stuff, you guys aren't even close :p ).

    But I dunno, maybe you're right. But there are gonna be almost as many different levels of comfort as there are people involved. It's all just a matter of finding a feasible balance.


    Misc. issues:
    - Just how many people here don't/wouldn't read the official magazine, go to the official website, watch the 'making of' videos, or watch the trailers? I don't think very many. (?)

    - The second trailer should come out in February.
  7. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    First, I have a plan to tell what stuff on the OS was officially released before the cutoff and what was not... I could mirror the OS on the day when we cut off official information, stick it up on TFN somewhere, and the rule would be htat if it's on the OS but not on the mirror then it was released after that date.

    The problem with HCNS threads comes when we get closer to the movie -- trolls would target those threads specifically. Also, not only hard-core NS people would be in those threads, I think... they would want to discuss it, too, and someone might slip up.

    I admit that keeping track of what official stuff is spoilers and what is not would be hard, and it would be really hard to make sure that people (especially newbies in the Rush) understand what is a spoiler and what is not... it wold be really hard to administrate, but I think it can be done, or at least should be tried to some extent.

    And with no more official information, I don't know if it would dry up conversation -- we have had things to talk about when there was very little official stuff, like the inspirations of GL, etc. There might not be as much posting, but there would still be things to talk about...

    --Mr. P :cool:
  8. Dom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2000
    star 4
    "The problem with HCNS threads comes when we get closer to the movie -- trolls would target those threads specifically."

    It's possible, I'm not sure. Threads like "Non-Spoiler Song" are in the end as dangerous - I'm surprised no troll went there, actually. Without a forum restricted by password there is not much to avoid trolling. Last week someone posted a full scriptment and the members who read it believed it to be fanfic until it was confirmed as trolling by SA people, and I remember concrete examples of threads where it's NS members who brought out stuff unwittingly and in good faith because they just don't know how spoilerish the issues are. Actually, these threads were left open and the interviews deemed fully LFL endorsed and "official" by the then admin, whereas they were a mix of official and non-official internet-based info based on what is probably the most spoilerish issue of the movie!

    "Also, not only hard-core NS people would be in those threads, I think... they would want to discuss it, too, and someone might slip up."

    Things will slip up here and there anyway, with HC threads people, those who respect the others anyway, might be more careful. I know it works well elsewhere, though in smaller communities - threads created or identified as hardcore are completely devoided of stuff concerning the characters, plot etc., they discuss general issues. When members want to discuss the same matters with speculation and official stuff, they create a non harcore thread for it.

    Of course I'm only suggesting. Like Pedro it's not much of an issue for me and I'll abide by the rules whatever they are - it's more for the NS people who read the official info and enjoy having new one to quelch their need for SW before the movie and won't have any other safe place to discuss it with other people. I enjoy the people around here and discussing with them - I can easily live without discussions about the movie itself as I have other places to go for that - but for people who haven't it could be quite uncool to lose this one.

  9. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    There's another thing we can do to protect ourselves from trolls...

    This we might put into effect for the two months leading up to the film (?)... We (the admins) will by then have the ability to make it so that only admins can post topics. ie, if you wanted to post a topic here, you would have to PM an admin, and they would post it for you. The thing is that that would protect us from trolls coming in and making threads like the E2 equivalent of "QUI-GON'S GONNA DIE!!!", with the spoilers in the title, which is pretty unavoidable (at least for me :p) if you happen to even glance at the title. I'm not sure how that would play out, but...

    And the tone poems: I don't know... yeah, they didn't give much away, but... I don't know. If we get subjective -- ie, these thinsg are allowed after this date but some other things aren't... it gets very ugly when there is a discrepency as to what is considered a spoiler and what isn't.

    --Mr. P :cool:
  10. Dom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2000
    star 4
    It's a good idea, but 2 months before the movie is not enough, and it's mostly good for newbies, not trolls.

    You can take the risk not to believe it but the plot as known on the other side is very accurate. As Pedro and me and other SA members can tell you, most of the trolls in the last weeks or months are also SA trolls, not "members" of the SA but trolls period, who read all the stuff on TF.N. then pester the SA either with 25 new threads or those damn POLLS about utterly stupid and redundant stuff or spend hours insulting the Insiders about proofs, crazy demands that they post their script and stuff like that that destroy their pleasure and ours. Before or after that, they come here to balance you the same "spoilers" they deemed untrue on the other side or for the fun of spoiling you! I guess their average age is close to 12 - and they won't go away... and can do as much damage now as later. I expect trolling could stay pretty much the same, they do not refrain from it for lack of information.
  11. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    It is not an easy issue. Right now, even with all the official stuff that has been released, I don't feel spoiled. But with TPM there was definitely spoilerish official info besides the novel and soundtrack. The one thing that I really remember is that the Insider had a picture of Obi-Wan hanging on for dear life in the pit during his duel with Maul before the movie came out. That really annoyed me. Unfortunately, I ended up finding about Qui-Gon's death as well from the soundtrack.

    I'll probably just stop coming here a few months before the movie comes out.
  12. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Speaking from the spoiled perspective, I think you guys will be playing with fire if you hang around here too close to the release date. It's not just the official information. SA has new spy reports coming in all the time and by the time the release date is a few months away there's not a lot that won't be known. Some troll can come out of there and spoil everyone here with a subject line.

    I'm not trying to scare anyone away but you should know there is a danger whenever you come here. We can nuke the trolls but not before the damage is already done. I think Mr.P's idea of admin controlled subject headings is a good one. So is cutting off discussion on official info after a time. Or maybe treating official information as other sites treat spoilers, with ample warning beforehand. I'm also going to put up a reminder thread in SA and
    make posting spoilers a bannable offence.

    We'll do what we can but ultimatly there's no way to make this place 100% spoiler safe.


  13. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    I'm very split about this subject. On the one side I agree that the official sources are giving away a lot of information, on the other I wouldn't like not being able to discuss what the OS posts. The troll problem will get worse, and I think it's a good idea to discuss how to prevent it now already, but I don't have a solution.
  14. random_trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 2
    A couple thoughts:

    1) Ignorance is bliss.

    The intriguing thing about all this is that in quite a few cases only spoiled people know if info is spoilerish. I can't count how many threads I've been apart of where some of the non-spoiler folk and myself are speculating away like mad and then like on page 5 or something, some SA member (who most often has good intentions) says something like: "Man, isn't that a spoiler?", or "geez, you're real close..." or something to that effect.

    The point is, if those things weren't pointed out, us clueless people would've gone about our merry ways and most likely forgotten half of it. But once someone brings it to LIGHT, all of a sudden I find myself searching back through the thread for whatever the SA person was talking about. The same sort of "side effect" happens whenever the "Spoiler Alert" forum gets bumped to the top. I'd say I've probably learned more about E2 indirectly from these cautionary warnings than I have from all the trolls combined, but that burden is something I have put on myself and is something that no mod can prevent, nor would I expect one to.

    Further preventative measures such as the official info cutoff theory would honestly do nothing but ostracize me from the NSA group because, well, I...I...I'm an official source junky and will continue to soak up all the out of context/random images and bits of info that the OS provides, yet I still plead ignorance on all spy reports and what not. So where then will I go to express my excitement or concern post trailer number1?? DEFINATELY not to SA, so where?

    drumroll....

    Well, here's my contribution:
    2) "You can't stop the change..."

    No one here is helpless or powerless over their own actions. We are all well aware of the danger of coming to this site or any fan site on the web. I am one who feels that the admins here do a great job, but maybe it's time we place some accountability back on ourselves, the average users. There is only so much monitoring one can do on a public forum, and I personally think the admins are doing all they can already. Besides, they can monitor till the cows come home but it still won't stop some of us from walking into a store and picking up either the wrong mag or the INEVITABLY revealing soundtrack. So some of this responsibility HAS to be put back on us. Perhaps we should keep things as they are for the mods and try, as members, to be more aware.

    2 pennies and I'm out...
  15. hew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 1999
    star 4
    I think banning official info is absurd. For starters, you'd be abolishing the one simple rule this forum is based on. Of course common sense dictates that official sources like the novelization or soundtrack may be off-limits, but to forbid updates from the web site, interviews with official cast & crew, etc. is just insane.

    It's only a movie.

    I agree with the idea that the surprises should be saved for the first viewing, and that 100% knowledge of the film could make the experience less enjoyable. But sometimes it's taken too far.

    There's only so far you can go with pure speculation and what-ifs. We already seem to be running out of topics around here. Half the threads are either about questioning the merits of staying unspoiled or patting each other on the back for our efforts - not on the actual films themselves.

    And saying we'll cut off official info after the trailer is like having your cake and wanting to eat it, too. If you already think LFL has given away too much, how much do you think they'll reveal in the trailer? If you're going to make the jump have the convictions to do it now.

    I won't even go into the idea of threads created by admins only... [face_plain]

    The fact is a public messageboard like this will never be secure. Once early 2002 rolls around, I'll be outta here.
  16. Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 6
    I think things should stay the way they were for TPM and have been for Episode II so far. Official info should be allowed except in the few cases that they reveal too much (i.e SW.com posting the crawl, novels and other books, the track titles on the soundtrack, info on the action figure packaging). Banning it all would leave this forum very empty.

    And I'm not sure if I like the idea of only mods posting topics. Seems a bit extreme, IMHO.
  17. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I think calling the ideas insane is overstating things just a bit, hew. Any ideas put forth by Mr.P only has the best interests of those who don't wish to be spoiled in mind. You say you're leaving at the beginning of '02, and that's fine. They're trying to work a solution for those who aren't.

    The problem with you non-spoiler guys is that you don't know what you want, or you want different things. You want a little information but not too much. You'll read offical information as long as it doesn't get too detailed. There's a hundred different levels of desired information represented here and it's all subjective.

    If you want the admins to allow official spoilers but filter out those that give too much info, how are they going to do that? First of all, the NSA admins are unspoiled themselves. So either they get spoiled so they can edit the information for you, or it's left to an admin like me. How do I know what you do and don't want to know?

    Face it, you guys are all a little daft anyways :). You don't want to be spoiled but you're posting to the biggest and most spoiler filled Star Wars site on the net. It's not the same as it was with TPM. There are a lot more spoilers and a ton more members. It's a difficult situation that they're just trying their best to handle.
  18. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    PB is right, to an extent. I am trying to help everyone out here...

    The idea of having only mods start topics is not "absurd", it is a way to protect people, IMHO. If someone wanted to post a topic, they would just PM me or another admin and we would put it up for them. But it would be protection from trolls coming in and putting spoilers in the topic subject -- they still could come in and post spoilers in the threads, unfortunately, but they couldn't spoil people through thread subjects (which would spoil more people). We are trying to minimize damage, if you want to think about it that way. Of course there will be trolls, but we want to make it so that they can't do as much damage as they otherwise would.

    In any case, I think that we also can't be subjective as to what is a spoiler and what isn't. We have to say, things that qualify as X are spiolesr, things that don't are not. If we say, "Well, official stuff is oK except for <this>, <that>, and also <this> as well" then things get mucky. Things get messed up, when people post stuff that's in gray areas. THis is what happened with Ternian and his non-spoiler spoiler thread. That's why (among other reasons) we decided that dicsussing opinions of spoilers would be considered spoilers -- we eliminated the gray area that gave us all a headache.

    So we've got to decide, "This" is a spoiler (not literally :p) and "that" isn't. We can't say, "Wel... ussually this is a spioler but in some cases it isn't..."; we have to be objective here. Because it is pretty much impossible to administrate subjectively.

    --Mr. P :cool:
  19. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    I think we can go as far as the full-length (usually second) trailer until we need to make any major policy revisions.

    Let's face it - everybody has a different interpretation of what being "spoiled" means. To determine a single standard requires some degree of recognition of the fact that no single umbrella rule will take care of everything, and judgment beyond the laid-down rules has to take place.

    If this forum goes entirely 100% unspoiled, even seeing "official" material as spoilers (which they sometimes are), then there is no longer a forum for people who fall between the two extremes - people who just read official material.

    Things like the novelization, screenplay, etc. I can understand, but once again, I really don't think trailers are spoilers.

    Really, the only way to be 100% unspoiled on this board is to leave the JC entirely. I will probably do this myself within a month of the film's release. Even if/when we have ultra-strict rules in this forum, who knows? A troll might go around PMing people from this forum, with spoilers in the titles of his PMs.

    And don't get any funny ideas. :)
  20. Sith Interceptor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 1999
    star 4
    how about I just put all of you out of your misery now. ;)

    Seriously, leaving everything this way until after Trailer B really is playing with fire. You are bound to get burnt. By next Feb, the SW hype machine will be in full swing. There will be no place to hide. You will discussing spoilers without even knowing it. You think there is a stack of info out now? Wait 6 months and tell me how it is.

    The only way to avoid any type of major spoiler is to unplug your PC after Trailer A and count your losses.

    ...or join us in SA and your journey toward the dark side will be complete. :)
  21. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    I have to agree with SI. I can put this whole thing into an analogy with a giant game of Chicken. We are playing with fire, and are trying to see how far we can go without getting burnt. When the trailers come out, there will be a rush of newbies, and along with that, trolls. We've got to do something to stop them (the trolls, specifically :p). And I think that once something happens -- ie, when a troll comes in and spoils a major plot point or something -- then everyone will wake up, smell the coffee and either 1) get the hell out of here or 2) agree that we need stricter measures.

    I for one think that as time progresses, the OS stuff will get more and more spoilerish. I already feel tainted by spoilers when I read the stuff on the OS, because, at least to me, it feels spoilerish. They've been giving out a ton of information, not just through the selects, but through the Making Of vids, the articles, the databank, everything. We cna tell whether Poof Daddy's Jedi counterpart will be in the movie or not, just by looking to see if he has the Blue II. Seriously, they're giving us a lot of stuff to work with.

    --Mr. P :cool:
  22. JediLynx Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2000
    star 5
    I have no good suggestions on how to stop the trolls. I'm planning to leave some time before the movie comes out, depending on how bad the situation is here. I'll be back right after I watched it, though! :)

    As for what should be considered a spoiler: I agree that a lot of the officially released information will be rather spoilerish. The novel, for example, is a clear cut case and should be an obvious no-no. The problem, as most of you already have pointed out, is where to draw the line. IMHO, the best solution would be to let everyone use their own judgement as to what they think is allowed. It's all about respecting the other members who post here; to stop and think for a minute before hitting the "post" button. If everyone uses their common sense and clearly state what the thread is about in the title, such as Discussion of the new info released on Anakin or Trailer B: discussion of the opening scene. Titles that give an overview of what the info in the thread is based on, without giving away anything that sensitive NS-people might consider spoilers.

    Please note that I am talking about the normal, sensible members who post here, and not the occacional troublemakers and trolls. They obviously lack common sense and respect for other people and I have no idea how to deal with them.


    [face_plain]
  23. hew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 1999
    star 4
    Okay, now that I'm sober let me post a more reasonable reply to Mr. P's recommendations. ;)

    The idea of admin's only starting threads for members would only work if you could actually block non-admins from posting topics in this forum. Otherwise, the regular members here who can be trusted would follow the rules and submit threads, but trolls could just post a spoiler-filled title anyway. Sure, an admin could delete it, but if a few people see it right away than the troll's work is already done.

    So unless cleo or someone can actually block non-admin threads, all you're doing is inconveniencing the members. Although I'll give you credit, it might also cut down on redundnacy and dumb threads - but then you run the risk of admins editing for content and watering down the forum. As annoying as some threads can be, it would be dull to constantly read threads started by the same group of admins, and in the long run some of the personality of the threads might get lost...

    I still think outlawing official info is overkill and would be bad for the forum, for the same reasons I stated above. Okay, PB, maybe insane was an overexaggeration.

    It comes down to how much you trust Lucas to hold back on what's important. It would've been cool for Maul's double-saber to have been preserved for the film, but did it really make that much difference, as opposed to knowing Qui-Gon's death? It comes down to personal perference, and you simply can't run this board to comply with what even the most regular members here consider a spoiler.

    Unfortunately, it's probably necessary to leave the boards closer to the film's release. There's only so much the admins can protect you from on a public board like this. You're at the mercy of the other members to respect your wishes...which is going to be asking a lot when new members and possible trolls start rolling in early next year.

    Although the idea of a few Hardcore Spoiler-free threads is interesting. Even if it's not implemented here, it could be done [cough]youknowwhere[/cough], maybe even a seperate hardcore forum...
  24. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5

    The idea of admin's only starting threads for members would only work if you could actually block non-admins from posting topics in this forum. Otherwise, the regular members here who can be trusted would follow the rules and submit threads, but trolls could just post a spoiler-filled title anyway. Sure, an admin could delete it, but if a few people see it right away than the troll's work is already done.


    The way that it would work would be that the snowboards software itself would only allow admins to post threads. Nobody who wasn't an admin could post a thread in this particular forum.


    Although I'll give you credit, it might also cut down on redundnacy and dumb threads - but then you run the risk of admins editing for content and watering down the forum. As annoying as some threads can be, it would be dull to constantly read threads started by the same group of admins, and in the long run some of the personality of the threads might get lost...


    The way that I would work it (and the way I would expect other admins who got PMed to post threads to work it :p) would be that whoever wanted me to post the thread would PM me the exact title and opening post they wanted me to post. I would post the thread with the exact title they gave me with the exact post they gave me, noting at the beginning of the post who was the one who wrote the post. I would only edit it if there was language that needed editing, or there were spoilers (obviously), which I would have edited anyway if they posted it regularly.


    I still think outlawing official info is overkill and would be bad for the forum, for the same reasons I stated above. Okay, PB, maybe insane was an overexaggeration.


    Maybe outlawing official new (remember, it's just for new stuff :D) information is a bit insane. Not only would it be impossibly hard to administrate, especially with the rush of newbies who might not know that that is the rule. However, outlawing certain types of official information might be more plausable -- maybe saying that the character info on the back of toy boxes is spoilers, or something to that extent.


    It comes down to how much you trust Lucas to hold back on what's important.


    At the rate he's going, I don't trust him very much in that.


    It comes down to personal perference, and you simply can't run this board to comply with what even the most regular members here consider a spoiler.


    Yes, personal preference. That's the problem, because each and every one of us has a different personal definition of what is a "spoiler", though they all fit under the forum's definition of a spoiler. Like I said before, we've got to be objective with this; we can't be subjective or else things will get ugly in the future.

    --Mr. P :cool:
  25. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    The more I see on the official site, and how I HATED lucasfilm when I got the soundtrack for my early birthday party (May 15th or so) will most likey make me stay away from everything until I see it.

    I will stay away from these boards, as well, unless SOME kind of protective measure is taken. I think the admin posting idea is great.
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