Lit New, Powerful Force Users

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Silas Nightstalker, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    This is mostly an era-related problem that has to do with how the cast has been structured, and it goes back to the NJO's decision, which was reasonable given YJK and other marketing considerations to elevate the Solo children to major character status. The NJO and onward has directed the main novel plotline towards what is essentially a family drama of the Skywalker-Solo clan, and just about everyone in that clan, except poor Han, uses the Force. Chewie's dead, Lando's old, and characters such as Wynn Dorvan and even Jag are constrained by their political station that means they have trouble mixing it up. Even the Rogues and Wraiths have mostly aged out of the front lines by the time of FotJ.

    Overall this pattern seems to be an outlier, one determined by the market-driven desire of Del Rey to move novels by placing Luke, Han, and Leia at the forefront, and by extension their Force-using offspring, romantic interests (the EU has generally take the wise stance of pairing Force User with Force user, but that does create Force-user glut), and so forth. Other eras have been much more flexible, even TCW, despite positively drowning in high-powered Jedi managed to add a whole stable of cool new bounty hunters and show them going toe-to-toe with Force-users.
  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I must have read a different Clone Wars EU, because I recall that during the clone wars the problem was as great as in other time periods. The only novels during Clone Wars I remember that have important non-Jedi heroes are the RC books. And the comics aren't much better, depicting pretty much anyone except the Jedi as either corrupt or utterly helpless.

    This isn't just some post-ROTJ-thing. Aside from OT or Dark Times eras it is jedi heroes every time everywhere. People like Atton Rand, who is himself force-sensitive, are btw. not very good counter-examples.

    Edit:
    One of the few shining exceptions are the KotoR comics. One more reason to love 'em.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 28, 2013
  3. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Also he was kind of a force-user
  4. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    I assume Krayt is at his best in FotJ. In the aftermath he's dying. Until he comes back, then he is back up there.

    He was side-by-side with Luke against Abeloth. Sidious lost to Luke... Luke needed Krayt to stop Abeloth. There is the potential for Krayt to be stronger than Sidious, but we haven't seen Luke and Krayt face off yet. Notably, Lumiya survived more encounters with Luke than Sidious, but she didn't win most of them.
  5. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    did he?
    I haven't seen Dark Empire so maybe it happens then, but if so that wasn't the real Sidious IMO
  6. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Luke beats him in a lightsaber duel (with Leia and baby Anakin's Force-related support), in Dark Empire.

    So one could argue Luke had an assist, which he didn't have against Abeloth, lowering Krayt's position in relation to Sidious, who needed three Skywalkers working together to beat.

    I wouldn't argue that wasn't the real Sidious, myself, as it really was, as far as the plot argues.
  7. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Wasn't he sort of a crazy clone or something?

    If that's considered the real Darth Sidious then it kind of cheapens the whole Star Wars saga
  8. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Actually Leia and baby Anakin's Force aid comes to play after the duel when they combine their powers to turn the Force storm against Palpatine. Leia only makes the Force aid remark once Sidious has lost and announce his endgame threat. It's shown in the comic and the audio drama although This is more clear in the audio drama. So Luke won the duel on his own


    As for Krayt and Luke, people seem to forget that Luke was taking the brunt of the battle while Krayt drains both Luke and Abeloth from a distance. IIRC Luke even gets in a fight with Krayt once he senses his power being drained.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 29, 2013
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  9. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
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    It was the real Sidious, he used Force transfer to send his spirit into clone bodies he prepared. All Sith seem to have a way to prolong their life through unnatural means see Krayt, Nihilus, etc. Though Sidious didn't fare as well with the clones he was capable of unleashing Force storms which rival Nihilus's power rather easily as the power was capable of wiping off planets
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 29, 2013
  10. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    In that case I can see why the authors and most fans choose to ignore Dark Empire lol.
    Kind of completely ruins the whole point of the Anakin Skywalker Star wars saga.
  11. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Yeah it's been a controversial thing since the pt, The ironic thing is this was one of the first major EU stories alongside Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy. And Lucas actually enjoy the series, quoting it to be close as sequel trilogy as it could have been


    Then again before the Prequels the center focus wasn't on Anakin's as the savior but his son Luke.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 29, 2013
  12. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Not at all. Palpatine's death over Endor brought balance to the Force and, for all his remaining power, left him broken. Had Anakin not cast him down, when he cast him down, his eternal reign would have been assured.

    Dark Empire is a story detailing the death throes of the Emperor.

    And, actually, in the wake of Revenge of the Sith and Vader/Sidious' quest for immortality, it's ended up being one of the more prescient pieces of EU there is. Thematically, at least.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Mar 29, 2013
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  13. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    As for Krayt and Luke, people seem to forget that Luke was taking the brunt of the battle while Krayt drains both Luke and Abeloth from a distance

    thank you !!!!this is what i have been saying all along. Luke took the brunt of the attack. He was the focal point of Abeloth's attention in that fight.
  14. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    You could make a statement that Palpatine was physically weaker because of transferring his essence into a un- muscled clone body. I mean at the very least he has no muscle memory. Of course Luke beat him in a physical contest.
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    The comic and the audio drama states that the clone body of Palps was younger and stronger, possessing physical strength. Even so if Palps was weak from the Force transfer he didnt show it. the first duel between the two Luke lost. Although by that time Luke was already being subtly influenced by Sidious, so Luke couldn't concentrate during the first duel.
  16. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Unless maximum difficulty removes the Star Destroyer sequence, I think it is safe to say that Starkiller is still ridiculous. I've never seen a game remind me that less is more better than TFU did.
    Last edited by Scars Unseen, Mar 29, 2013
  17. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    it was never meant to be a canon character. they just wanted to make a fun game
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  18. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    That makes more sense
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    ^although the instance where he does transfers to his new body he defeats Luke, the clone bodies were also youthful forms of his original body.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Size matters not...
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  21. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    If a girl tells you that she is lying
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  22. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    And at what point do we stop taking that at face value? Can we move planets? How about shifting star systems? Hell, why not just collapse the entire galaxy in upon itself if size truly isn't relevant? The person who said that had to visibly exert himself to lift a single starfighter out of the muck, and he was one of the most powerful force users of his time. In Episode II, Dooku managed to escape by dropping a small cluster of large stones and forcing Yoda to focus completely on diverting their path. Star Wars isn't Dragonball Z, and every time some author or game designer tries to one-up everyone who came before him and show off their pet Super Saiyan Force Conduit, it makes me cringe.
  23. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    It's not supposed to be taken 100% literally
  24. Scars Unseen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Yup. That's my point.
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  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yoda ain't no girl.

    No, he managed to escape by dropping a pillar on Anakin and Obi-Wan.

    Apparently you've decided that point is "Star Destroyer". But does that make it the official cutoff?
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 30, 2013
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