New Republic Capital Ships - still sorting out the mess... (Fleet Junkies- HO!)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Thrawn McEwok, Jun 5, 2003.

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  1. Senator_Cilghal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2003
    star 5
    wait, was Carvin still around after the Bacta War as a rival to Dangor?
  2. Ivan_R Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2005
    just a quick question - in Tyrant's Test, A'baht internally monologue's that a Task Force = 21 ships -> however he only lists 14.

    - 1 Star Destroyer or carrier
    - 2 Heavy cruisers
    - 2 Assault carriers
    - 4 Escort FFs
    - 5 Gunships
    - 7 Other

    assuming every vessel in the Fifth Fleet is New Class, the hvy cruisers are Majestics/Belarus, the Assault Carriers I'm not sure of (Defenders?), the escort frigs are most likely Corona/Sacheen, Gunships are Warriors, but what makes up the other 7? -> one would assume Ferrets and Prowlers would be fleet level assets (C4SIR), so the only thing I can think of is Haaj fleet tenders. But 7 tenders seems a lot for a unit only looking to deploy at max for 5 months.

    Would Picket ships (Agrave) etc fall under this level of command, or would they be Battle Group level assets?

    even so, the Task Force seems better for showing the flag rather than any serious fighting...
  3. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

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    May 23, 2005
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    I would assume that those 7 additional vessels are either support (tenders, C3I, sensor/ecm platforms) or mission specific.
    As for the purpose, he task force seems well suited for system level operations against small threats such as pirates, system pacification/mediation, versus fleet combat with enemy formations.
  4. Wes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000
    star 3
    Belarus didn't fall under the New Class program. It was like the Republic SD and Corona Frigates, individual starship programs that added more modern ships into the NRDF.

    The size of the 5th Fleet has always been a problem, it is too small when you compare it to Imperial Starfleet groups. As for the Taskforce, you wouldn't expect a lone taskforce to attack a Sector Group. But it can still take on up to three ISDs with hope of success, it would finitely have a starfighter advantage over 3 ISD even if it had a NSD/DSD instead of a Endurance.

    Of course the Taskforce helps organise a fleet into a command that is managable by the person/s in command. In a fleet combat situation, instead of a fleet Admiral sending individual orders to hundreds of ships, s/he would give general orders to a handful of Battlegroup commanders "destroy orbital station" or "flank enemy position", Battlegroup commanders then take these orders and give a more specific direction to Taskforce commanders "Taskforce blah attack enemy ships at blah" kind of thing, then Taskforce commanders get down to the actual ship to ship communication and planning.

    It is a fairly standard managerial process if you think about it if you think about in terms of planning, organising, leading and controlling. Most of the planning and organising happens at the top (fleet Admiral) while the actual leading happens at the bottom.
  5. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

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    May 23, 2005
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    What were the numbers for Death Squadron again? Barring Executor, I seem to recall Death Squad being 5 ISDs and 100 smaller ships. If that is true, it is a pretty close correlation to the Fifth Battle Group's 5 task forces of 21 ships.
  6. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Ex: any chance to get all the direct quotes on the Aggressor, the operation to pick up Loor, and that SSD sent after Derricote?

    KN: Aircraft Carriers are the backbone of the US Navy, (or the combat wings they carry) not destroyers. Almost all ships nowadays primarily support carriers, since there are few threats at sea. That said, Star Destroyers are more akin to battleships and carriers melded together, than actural US Navy Guided Missile Destroyers. A Strike Cruiser is a more suitable analog.

    Yep - though in my own defennce, I was simply trying to sidestep the aircraft/guns-and-missiles contrast in that remark, and suggesting that the way SSDs are used could be compared with the way lone carriers at the centre of large fleets are used to dominate entire theatres of operation, rather than being any sort of "ships of the line" assembled in homogenous combat formations.

    Does that make sense? [face_worried]

    I liked the point on these SSDs being Maginot Lines. A smart tactician would subscribe to 3rd generation "maneuver" warfare, although the Clone Wars sees more 2nd Gen WWI-style ground combat.

    I agree with McEwoks theory that ISDs are the primary and centerpiece platform that carries out the Empire's military doctrine, with the larger ships being few and of questionable effectiveness.


    *grins* thanks! :D

    Jello: I might have something to say about this ISD thing, once I get it confirmed. :)

    :D Thanks!

    There isn't. There's just a vague reference in the EC, whereas DESB is pretty clear that Dangor and the ERC appointed him.

    Hmm. What does the DESB say, exactly? EC says that Moffs and other leaders "effectively" gave Thrawn command six months before HttE (perhaps even before TG); but isn't there somewhere (DESB?) that has him formally elevated to Supreme Commander shortly before Bilbringi? My bad entirely if I'd muddled the two references, and yes, I see now that there's no hint at the Moffs appointing a Supreme Commander in the EC... [face_blush]

    Well, all indications show that Isard only dealt with the Tribunal--killing two and imprisoning Carvin. The rest seem to have approved of her position as Stewardess of the Empire and left her alone. They're definately the group that has been identified to have succeeded her, though, and they're plotting and managing past Thrawn and into DE--and that's where they're last mentioned. It's presumed that they either died on Byss, or went into hiding.

    Hmm... is the "Stewardess" title canon?

    And it's just about possible that Mandatory Retirement limits itself to three Tribunes (Challer, Plumba and Carvin) for narrative clarity, rather than any other reason... would Dangor and the others really have left them in power? Or would they have let Isard rule? You could equally argue that Isard and Thrawn are in command from Mandatory Retirement #4 all the way through, and that the reapearance of the Imperial Council late in Thrawn's campaign followed some time in Lusankya, with Dangor simply carrying through Isard's plan after her death/capture in IR...

    *shrug* You may be better-informed than me...

    Ivan_R: pickets are corvette-type ships, so I suspect tenders, pickets, ferrets and prowlers all operate at the taskforce lever - say, two tenders, three pickets, and one each of the other two? In TT, we see a cruiser, a gunship and a ferret operating as a unit.

    As to the taskforce size, well, aren't Majestic-class cruisers supposed to be able to fight ImpStars, in spite of the size disparity? A Star Destroyer and two cruisers backedup by extra fighters from two assault carriers, or potentially four cruisers backed up by fighters from a fleet carrier (are assault carriers really necessary alongside a Fleet Carrier), would be equivalent to three or four ImpStars.

    And is it said anywhere that all the Fleets are all the same size? We see extra taskforces assigned in the BFC itself, we see massively expanded "fleet groups" in the NJO - and could CTD give a post-BFC OOB? You could imag
  7. Pelranius Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2003
    star 5
    I thought that Death Squadron was one of the larger Imperial fleet formations ever organized? (on like the level, of say, Giel's Armada?)
  8. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    The ESB novel mentions that Death Squadron had about 20 battleships, but I don't think that includes support craft and troopships. It also possible that the 20 ship group was only the part of Death Squadron escorting the Executor.

    >>>And it's just about possible that Mandatory Retirement limits itself to three Tribunes (Challer, Plumba and Carvin) for narrative clarity, rather than any other reason... would Dangor and the others really have left them in power? Or would they have let Isard rule? You could equally argue that Isard and Thrawn are in command from Mandatory Retirement #4 all the way through, and that the reapearance of the Imperial Council late in Thrawn's campaign followed some time in Lusankya, with Dangor simply carrying through Isard's plan after her death/capture in IR... <<<

    In the beginning of Mandatory Retirement, there is an Imperial council meeting which shows other members besides the three Tribunes. At least four and most likely five persons are present at the meeting besides Iceheart. Interestingly, later in the comic the other two chairs are removed, leaving only Challer, Plumba, and Carvin. Maybe they made a grab for power and formed the Tribunal. [face_thinking]
  9. Ivan_R Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2005
    no problem with any of that - I've been following and giving orders most my adult life - my point was as the base operational unit, the Task Force should have more firepower, since the existance of tenders means it is supposedly self sufficient. If it is designed to be the base tactical unit, then it doesn't need tenders, as it will be a part of a bigger entity, which will have it's own loggies train to supply the tactical components.

    I guess the question is, is the Task Force an operational or tactical level group? If it is tactical then it doesn't need tenders (which begs the question, what are the remaining seven ships); and if it is an operational level entity (which it's stated mission would imply), then it seems too undergunned to be anything more than a core force; in times of hostilities, round out units are brought in to bring the unit up to strength.

    I'm not sure of the force doctrine of NRDF, but it seems at odds with the stated mission
  10. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    R_F: The ESB novel mentions that Death Squadron had about 20 battleships, but I don't think that includes support craft and troopships. It also possible that the 20 ship group was only the part of Death Squadron escorting the Executor.

    Hmm? [face_thinking] Well, I managed to find an online text of the novellization here:
    As Vader watched, one of his smaller ships disintegrated under the impact of an enormous asteroid. Seemingly unmoved, he turned to look at a series of twenty holographic images. These twenty holograms re-created in three dimensions the features of twenty Imperial battleship commanders. The image of commander whose ship had just been obliterated was fading rapidly, almost as quickly as the glowing particles of his exploded ship were being flung to oblivion.
    This is, in fact, based on the script:
    Asteroids collide, creating a fireworks display outside the bridge window. Darth Vader stands, staring out the window above the control deck. Then slowly turns toward the bridge. Before him are the hologram images of twenty battleship commanders. One of these images, the commander of a ship that has just exploded, is fading away quickly. Another image, in the center and a little apart from the others, is faded and continually disrupted by static. It is the image of Captain Needa, commander of the Star Destroyer most hotly on the tail of the Millennium Falcon. Admiral Piett and an aide stand behind the Dark Lord.
    A few observations:
    • Most obviously, the run of figures on the holo-stage in the movie takes precedent over both script and novellization: do we know how many we see there?

    • secondly, although it was presumably the author's intent that the "battleship commanders" were actually commanders of battleships, we could retconn the term as a rank like Linienschiffskapitan or capitaine de vaisseau, and the twenty as a raft of Death Squadron's senior officers, including some aboard Ex and elsewhere in the fleet...

    • If the term does refer to the captains of battleships, there's no size-limit given for these "battleships", though it clearly includes the Avenger, as Needa is one of the twenty officers in question; if these are "battleships" as opposed to smaller ships, then Star Destroyers must be "battleships"; if not, then they could include smaller ships as well as ImpStars

    • Last, but not least, there's no direct equation of these "twenty battleships" with Death Squadron. Especially if Death Squadron is indeed canonically pegged as Ex plus five ImpStars, then she could easily be augmented, just like Thrawn's core armada - and may have been so expanded for the Hoth campaign. I have no fundamental objection to a larger fleet comprising Ex and approx. 20 ImpStar "battleships"...

    In the beginning of Mandatory Retirement, there is an Imperial council meeting which shows other members besides the three Tribunes. At least four and most likely five persons are present at the meeting besides Iceheart. Interestingly, later in the comic the other two chairs are removed, leaving only Challer, Plumba, and Carvin. Maybe they made a grab for power and formed the Tribunal. [face_thinking]

    Hmm? That's what I get for not having a copy of Mandatory Retirement #1. Thanks, though! :D So I guess that means we do see a whittling of the Ruling Council down to nonexistence... which raises the question - where did Dangor and the other "survivors" go? [face_thinking]

    Ivan_R: I get the impression that a taskforce is designed to be fairly flexible - it can be treated as an operational or tactical unit depending on the scale of the thread, which could explain why support ships would be grouped into the formation.

    - The Imperial Ewok
  11. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    McEwok, we have Impstars refered to as Cruisers, Battleships, Star Destroyers.....

    Unless you're implying a variety of ship classes based off the same hull, ala Majestics and Nebula's - and all the ImpStars in Death Squad recieved such treatment - bumping to battleships....

    And is it said anywhere that all the Fleets are all the same size? We see extra taskforces assigned in the BFC itself, we see massively expanded "fleet groups" in the NJO - and could CTD give a post-BFC OOB? You could imagine the First in reserve, the Second, Third and Fourth arranged aginst major Imperial strategic fleets, all also with responsible for escorts, etc. in their areas, and the Fifth created as a sort of mobile strikeforce for tasks that don't require the First, capable of handling anything up to a somewhat attrited Sector Fleet, and being built up by adding taskforces to hammer anything bigger...

    I modelled my NR fleet project on similar ideas - the 1st at Coruscant, and the 2nd to 4th on the Front lines, assumedly 4th at Deep Core and 2nd and 3rd facing Rim Empire - the 2nd is wore down in fights at Meridia and Antemeridia, and replaced with 1st in frontline, and then 1st, 3rd, and 5th kick Pelly, the fore defending the NR, the latter two chasing Pelly home.

    With the 1st, 3rd and 5th crippled fighting Pelly, 2nd wore down by years of warfare, and 4th engaging the majority of the advanced ships of the Yevethan Black Fleet, it explains the dire straits of the NR post-Anx Minor - fleets broken, forced to patrol numerous more worlds it just took from Pelly, and few remainder responsible for the NR's security. It probably explains why Sector Fleets reappeared by HoT - the NR couldn't defend them, so they did themselves, facilating the devolved government seen in HoT, centred around Sector Rule.
  12. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Another factor for smaller fleets may be funding. The Empire built it's war machine through heavy taxation supposedly. Without doing the same, the NR would not have nearly the resources to build as large a force, though they would need to do a comparable job. It may be easier to drop fleets down to the sector level, make the sectors pay for them, and then draft the sector fleets as needed.
  13. Fingolfin_Noldor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2004
    star 4
    It might be easier, but it should never have relinquished control to the fleets to sector control. It should remain under command of New Republic Military High Command and at most, High Command should establish a Command Post to command the fleet and to protect the space the command post has jurisdiction over.
  14. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Logically, yes, though the NR seems more like a Confederation at this point, especially with the structure of the military. It seems most tthe mower rests with the sector level, who may have demanded jurisdiction. Sort of a "we pay, we play" with the fleets.
  15. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    Actually, I'm relying on the Behind the Magic CD for the 20 battleships info. Here's the quote:
    In the novelization of The Empire Strikes Back, Vader's fleet consists of 20 battleships, all led by Vader's Executor.

    Of course, the novel doesn't say that directly (its implied by the "twenty Imperial battleship commanders" quote) but it does include smaller warships:
    Flanking the Star Destroyers were a number of smaller fighter ships and, darting about this great space armada, were the infamous TIE fighters.

    The greatest of all the Imperial Star Destroyers regally moved out of Hoth's orbit. It was flanked by two other Star Destroyers and the entire group was accompanied by a protective squadron of smaller warships.

  16. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    McEwok: Here's the relevant paragraphs:


    Five years had passed since Endor, and the strains were threatening to tear the Empire apart, when from
    the outlying regions of the galaxy came a series of ident codes. Unquestionably authentic, they
    accompanied a holo message from the last surviving Grand Admiral, named Thrawn. The squabbling
    ministers knew just how important a Grand Admiral could be to reverse the tide of defeat. Even the most
    myopic of them knew how empty rule would be without an Empire to rule over.

    Putting aside their differences for the time being, they managed to arrive at a consensus: a war hero such
    as Thrawn might be exactly what they needed. As a non-Human, he was a complete outsider with no
    power base save his own competence. He could rely on no support other than what they chose to give him.
    Such a situation could prove advantageous, if he could accomplish all he claimed. If he could destroy the
    New Republic, they might make him their figurehead Emperor, with their power behind him. And if he
    eventually proved too independent for them, he could always be eliminated.


    Earlier, it talks about the Ruling Circle ministers arguing over what to do, and it directly speaks of them here, so it suggest that the ERC appointed Thrawn. :)

    Hmm... is the "Stewardess" title canon?


    Sortof kinda not really. It comes from Ackbar's line in Wedge's Gamble where he says that Isard claims to be holding the planet (Imperial Center) in stewardship, and so it's an extension of that. It's an interpretation to suggest that she's a regent/stewardess, and I mostly use it because it's logically true (if not really canon) and it looks cool. Stewardess of the Empire--mm.

    And it's just about possible that Mandatory Retirement limits itself to three Tribunes (Challer, Plumba and Carvin) for narrative clarity, rather than any other reason... would Dangor and the others really have left them in power? Or would they have let Isard rule? You could equally argue that Isard and Thrawn are in command from Mandatory Retirement #4 all the way through, and that the reapearance of the Imperial Council late in Thrawn's campaign followed some time in Lusankya, with Dangor simply carrying through Isard's plan after her death/capture in IR...


    Thrawn must've been kept in the dark, since he didn't seem to be aware of events at the time. As for the tribunate--it seems that the word the writers were looking for was triumvirate, since that seems to be a better description of those three rulers. Whether or not Dangor would have left them in power is academic, since they fell quickly--and it's arguable whether they had any true power. As Isard notes, "power in Imperial Center is in flux."

    It's likely Dangor simply plotted behind the scenes when Isard took control, because the Ruling Circle definately took power as soon as she lost Imperial Center.
  17. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 5
    I didn't say otherwise. However the heavy weapons of the imperial ships are designed with long range and broadsides in mind, not point-black-range. The second problem for the imperials is, that they're spread out by forming a wall in space, while the rebels are able to concentrate their forces against single points of that wall.

    Groan.

    Of course, after the Star Dreadnought comes the SuperStarDestroyer in the classification-system.

    Who claims they didn't try? The RotJ-novel makes clear, that the Executor had problems with the helm already before the crash of the A-Wing into its bridge.

    There are already more than twenty of the Executor, the largest design until Endor. There would be scores of the smaller ones with growing numbers, while size decreases.

    The ImpStar CAN'T be the standard battleship, because:

    - it is classified as a destroyer,
    -does the work of a destroyer,
    -is taken out by planetary artillery
    -can't overcome planetary shields
    -there exist cruisers, battlecruisers and dreadnoughts ABOVE it in the classification-system
    -given the scale of the major civilisation of the GFFA ISDs are just not up to the task. They don't carry enough fighters, they don't carry enough troops, they don't have enough firepower, they don't have shields strong enough ...

    You're claims about the large warships are wrong, because:

    -the empire can build DeathStars (equalling BILLIONS of ISDs in resources),
    -transport the oceans of an entire world away,
    -there are private organisations/companies that have thousands of their own armed ships or single planets with ships equal or superior to ISDs (MonCalamari, Kuat, Corellia, Humbarine, probabely Dornea)
    -an Executor is twenty times as expansive as an ISD, but gives you 78times as many guns
    -a battleship can be unwieldy in comparison to a destroyer

    You're interpretation of offical evidence lacks the acknowlegement of offical sources like ROTS:ICS or ITW:eek:T. It also ignores the point-of-view from which most of your sources come from: historians of the rebel-alliance, who were either ignorant of the empire's true abilities or covered them up as to not discourage their fellow rebels. There is a reason the Rebel-Alliance was a phenomenem of the outer rim, far away from the centres of imperial power.

  18. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Sr: McEwok, we have Impstars refered to as Cruisers, Battleships, Star Destroyers.....

    Um, do we actually have any canon references to them as "destroyers" rather than "Destroyers"? o_O [face_thinking]

    Unless you're implying a variety of ship classes based off the same hull, ala Majestics and Nebula's - and all the ImpStars in Death Squad recieved such treatment - bumping to battleships....

    I'm not quite sure what you mean here...

    But I think that the Republic sees small government and a small military as good things... what the Empire did was the equivalent of the US taking over all the world's armies and trying to impose US tech/training levels on them all...

    R_F: Of course, the novel doesn't say that directly (its implied by the "twenty Imperial battleship commanders" quote) but it does include smaller warships:

    So we have smaller ships? I could buy a dozen or so smaller "battleships" - a picket line of Carracks, perhaps a few Strikes and Dreadnaughts; certainly, that's a possible reading, and if DS is ever canonically stated to comprize Ex and five ImpStars, we can't insist on alternatives (though I'll allow that we do actually seem to have two extra ImpStars making up numbers beyond the core unit)...

    Jello: Earlier, it talks about the Ruling Circle ministers arguing over what to do, and it directly speaks of them here, so it suggest that the ERC appointed Thrawn. :)

    Okay - thanks! Yet EC does suggest that the Moffs also have a say, and taking that together with the "Moffs and Grand Moffs" of DESB, I'd suggest we can't dismiss some sort of collective-action capability...

    Also, this obviously doesn't refer to the "Supreme Commander" post. Am I misremembering, or misinformed?! :oops:

    Sortof kinda not really. It comes from Ackbar's line in Wedge's Gamble where he says that Isard claims to be holding the planet (Imperial Center) in stewardship, and so it's an extension of that. It's an interpretation to suggest that she's a regent/stewardess, and I mostly use it because it's logically true (if not really canon) and it looks cool. Stewardess of the Empire--mm.

    :p Makes sense... personally, I like the idea that her power is just raw power, untrammelled by titles (though backed up by putting her personal sex-slave/spec-ops unit in Royal Guard uniforms)...

    But I won't begrudge you your POV...

    Thrawn must've been kept in the dark, since he didn't seem to be aware of events at the time.

    o_O No? We know he's in contact with Isard - Krennel comes back from the Unknown Regions in XWRS, and in Wedge's Gamble, she sends an officer out to serve under him...

    As for the tribunate--it seems that the word the writers were looking for was triumvirate, since that seems to be a better description of those three rulers. Whether or not Dangor would have left them in power is academic, since they fell quickly--and it's arguable whether they had any true power. As Isard notes, "power in Imperial Center is in flux."

    Doesn't someone call them "the Tribunal" somewhere in MR? I suspect the terminology is deliberate - a tribunal of tribunes, evoking both the tribuni plebis and the Tribunal révolutionnaire: I rather like the quiet semantic suggestion of populist revolutionary zeal and Kafkaesque trial-by-madness...

    And of course, Isard becomes Barras to Thrawn's Napoleon...

    It's likely Dangor simply plotted behind the scenes when Isard took control, because the Ruling Circle definately took power as soon as she lost Imperial Center.

    This still begs the question of where Dangor goes in the interim... again, I think your idea of a continuity of authority in the Ruling Council fits the evidence we have, but on the other hand, I rather like the idea of Isard and Thrawn manipulating Dangor, Carvin and one or two others...

    Hmm. Could they be backing Josef Grunger? [face_thinking]

    Anyway, can we agree to disagree? :)

    Or is that too like a compromize for you... :p

    FTeik: I'll get back to you later.
  19. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Sr: McEwok, we have Impstars refered to as Cruisers, Battleships, Star Destroyers.....

    Um, do we actually have any canon references to them as "destroyers" rather than "Destroyers"?

    Unless you're implying a variety of ship classes based off the same hull, ala Majestics and Nebula's - and all the ImpStars in Death Squad recieved such treatment - bumping to battleships....

    I'm not quite sure what you mean here...

    But I think that the Republic sees small government and a small military as good things... what the Empire did was the equivalent of the US taking over all the world's armies and trying to impose US tech/training levels on them all...


    Well, we do have Isards Revenge calling a Victory-class ship a Destroyer rather than Star Destroyer...

    And I was implying a variety of weaponary based off the same hull - like the Tectors, Imperators, Dominators, etc, just with battleship varieties added?
  20. FTeik Force Ghost

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    Nov 7, 2000
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    How much more battleship than a Tector can you get on a mile-long hull?
  21. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    So all 20 ships were Tectors?? And then 5 or so other ISDs?? And numerous escort ships??? And a Star Dreadnought...

    Sounds about right for the main Rebel Base. A more appropriate response from an Empire anticipating MC's.
  22. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Only problem is that one of the "battleship commanders" is Lorth Needa of the Star Destroyer Avenger, and another one is the captain of the Star Destroyer which gets blatted by the asteroid...

    And "Destroyer" rather than "Star Destroyer" dates back at least to the RotJ novellization; there's a difference between "Destroyer", capitalized (a contraction of "Star Destroyer") and "destroyer", lower-case (a destroyer, eg. Adz-class, Blackhawk-class, and even the Recusant-class, of which it's said you need a handful to take on a VenStar)...

    - The Imperial Ewok
  23. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

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    Aren't Recusant-class considered light destroyers?

    Adz-class is a patrol destroyer, which sounds similar to a heavy frigate actually.
  24. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 12, 2003
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    Just found this awesome Dark Empire cover.

    It has some new ships in orbit around what I assume is Byss: an Acclamator variant, a possible Allegiance or other Star Destroyer, and some other smaller ships. There's a weird combination between a SD (or other dagger) and what looks to be a Taggeco. ship in the top-left. Plus, it shows the central-front docking bay on the Eclipse.

    :cool:
  25. Fingolfin_Noldor Jedi Master

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    Aug 10, 2004
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    Hey! I have that as a wallpaper :p

    But yeah, it's a cool wallpaper. Some ships like naval ships of the sea though... other than the Eclipse.
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