ST New Rey Theory: Carbonite Princess

Hi I am new here but I wrote a fun theory about Rey that I haven't seen before. TLDR: Rey not Leia is Luke's sister and Frozen in Carbonite by Palpatine and forgotten in the Imperial Archives until Snoke finds her, raises her and puts her on Jakku to suffer a harsh childhood as a step towards darkness. As far as I can tell, it offers answers to the questions and 'plot holes' in TFA...

Introduction

Let’s start with a possible scene (big twist) involving Rey and Kylo Ren

INT CLOUD CITY

Rey and Kylo Ren are locked in a lightsaber battle in the wind tunnel where Luke and Vader once fought. Both are much better trained now and they are evenly matched. He gains the advantage and knocks her back against the boom where Luke had his arm severed. She is momentarily stunned and drops the Bespin saber which falls into the abyss below. He charges and holds his blade ready to plunge it through her heart.

KYLO REN
Luke never told you about your father

REY
He told me you killed my father

KYLO REN
No, I idolized YOUR father. Luke made him weak and killed the dark in him. He made YOU weak too.

REY
You are lying.

KYLO REN
I saw it the day our minds touched. I saw it in your eyes when you held his blade over me wanting to kill but you couldn’t–just like I can’t kill you today. Now I only idolize you, the one true daughter of Lord Vader.

REY
That’s impossible! Leia–

KYLO REN
Another baby switched with you when the Emperor stole you. Luke realized this when he tried to train her as a Jedi but never told her. In fact she came from a program to try to breed more Sith.

​

(he drops his saber and locks her in a hold like he did when they first met but this time he holds her over the abyss)​

(Rey’s mind is filled with images: Palpatine stealing her from Bail Organa and freezing her away in carbonate as a plan B if he ever failed with Luke–a plan B that was forgotten when he perished on the Death Star. She remained frozen in the Imperial Archives for nineteen years until Snoke recovered her and raised her to Anakin’s age. Then he placed her on Jakku with Unkar Plutt to grow up as a Scavenger and get hardened for a path to the Dark Side.)​

I know you feel it too…

​

(She gazes at him in terror as he yanks her to close to him. He stares into her eyes and leans over to kiss her. Switch the camera to her eyes as they boil with rage.)​

REY
These are lies!

​

(Her mind shifts to that day when the sun went black and Kylo murdered Han. With each word she speaks the light in her heart blackens into rage. A shadow appears in the wind tunnel. Her voice sounds full of darkness as she intones these words)​

ALL OF THEM!

​

(her rage transforms into a blast of purple lighting that detonates between them and burning them both. The explosion knocks them back and breaks his grip on her. She plummets into the pit that Luke once did. As her rage filled screams echo from below the camera pans up to the shadow and it is Snoke. His laughter echoes through the halls as Kylo Ren stumbles around dazed by the blast…)​

FADE TO BLACK

Commentary and Meta

I like this theory because it shakes up all the characters and it makes Rey a Skywalker while resolving messy plot issues around Rey being left on Jakku with Luke and mystery mom being bad parents who somehow leave her to grow up as a serf to Unkar Plutt and so forth.
It also lets us retcon the Leia is Luke’s sister thing which bothers many fans.
Additionally it gives an explanation to why Rey awakens to her powers so quickly. She has a connection with Luke because they are twins. Evidence of this include:

• She has visions involving Luke when she touches the Bespin lightsaber.
• When she beats Kylo Ren her body language and rage is similar to Luke when he kills Vader
• Ben Kenobi uses her name in the Force-back
• Rey and Luke dress in a similar style (as do other Skywalkers)
• She looks into the sky longingly like Luke in EP4 nov
• The following dialog makes more sense
  
  Maz: Dear child, I see your eyes; you already know the truth. Whomever you’re waiting for on Jakku [her parents], they’re never coming back. But there’s someone who still could. [her brother] ​
  Rey: Luke ​
  Maz: The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead​
• When she beats Kylo Ren her body language and rage is similar to Luke when he kills Vader

Question: Does Carbonite Princess ruin Leia’s character and rob her of agency?
Answer: No, it gives a good explanation for why Luke and Leia did not follow through with the following narrative promise:

Princess Leia: Luke, don’t talk that way. You have a power that I don’t understand and can never have.​

Luke: You’re wrong, Leia. You have that power, too. In time, you will learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And…my sister has it. Yes. It’s you, Leia.​

We assume that Luke spent quality time teaching his ‘sister’ the ways of the Force. After all, who in their right mind would not train another force sensitive sibling if their goal is to rebuild the Jedi order. Even Luke could die at any moment and the Jedi would end there.

Suppose that Luke realized his mistake while attempting to train her and realized that there was some intrinsic Sith in her. Perhaps early during her training, Leia has a major outburst of anger/fear/hatred that terrifies her. Luke simply decides not to encourage her to overcome it but instead supports her view that being a politician is really her path and she senses that it would be better to not delve deeper.

This deception has the following interesting consequences:

• When Kylo Ren destroys his order Luke realizes how horrible his choice was and can’t face himself or Leia.
• This also gives the foundation for a very interesting character arc for Leia in the sequel trilogy as she has to over come her own Sith nature in order to rescue Rey after the above scene. This empowers both women far more than what we might assume if Leia is just a victim of the Skywalker Clan and Han Solo being a bad husband and father.
• This also explains why Kylo Ren’s powers are different than Vader’s.

Question: Why doesn’t Luke, Kenobi or Yoda know that Leia is not his sister?
Answer: The Jedi we have seen in canon are horrible at sensing familial relations. In Jedi, when we get the lines “I always knew it” he is sensing the presence of Sith energy and can’t distinguish it from Vader.

Other examples of being bad at sensing family include, Vader, Palps, and Luke. As for Obi-wan’s force ghost, Obi-wan believes fully that Leia was the girl raised by Bail Organa and this would influence everyone else even Vader when he reads Luke’s mind.

Question: What about the dialog about Leia and Luke remembering their mother.
Answer: Here is the dialog. It supports Carbonite Princess:

​

Princess Leia: Luke, what’s wrong?​

Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?​

Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young. ​

Luke: What do you remember? ​

Princess Leia: Just… images really. Feelings.​

Luke: Tell me.​

Princess Leia: She was… very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this? ​

Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.​

So Leia remembers her real mother when she was very young and Luke remembers nothing. Interesting contrast and makes total sense if Carbonite Princess is true. In fact Rey Vader is the only good explanation I have seen to explain the contradictory events/'plot holes’ in Ep 1-6.

Question: Doesn’t Lucas claim this was a mistake in flushing out the back-plot when writing Jedi?
Answer: Sure but how could JJ and Rian pass up this good of a plot twist and resolve several story problems in Original Trilogy (Luke and Leia’s kiss and romance for example)

Question: Why are Rey, the Falcon, the Map and Lorsan Tekka all on Jakku?
Answer: Snoke. He put Rey on Jakku in Unkar’s care to give her a childhood of privation. He arranged for the Falcon to get into Unkar’s hands through connections with the underworld. This theory assumes that he had the map piece to Skywalker all along and he put it on Jakku. Then it would be a simple matter to slip some Intel to Lor San Tekka and Kylo Ren to set this whole thing in motion.

Comment: If we wanted to make things super tidy we can have the old Imperial Research Base on Jakku (http://spoiledbluemilk.com/2016/01/29/about-that-secret-imperial-research-base-on-jakku/) be the location of the Sith Breading Program.

Question: Who is Snoke?
Answer: One of the nice features of Carbonite Princess is that it doesn’t really matter although him being Darth Plagueis would be a nice bonus.

Question: Wait, what? So Kylo Ren is not Vader’s grand kid?
Answer: Muhahahaha! Yes this means that Kylo Ren murdered his father based on a lie. This twist makes Han’s death even more tragic. It also gives Kylo a solid basis to realize how wrong he was about a great many things. However in the scene he double down by making Rey the object of his obsession.

Question: Princess??? Really?
Answer: grins evilly Hint: Padme was queen for two terms and it is Disney after all.

Question: Rey? Regina? Coincidence?
Answer: That’s not how the Force works!

Acknowledgements

Thanks OHTZE for the remarkable posts on relyo, all the posters on fun threads on Jedi Council/Reddit/etc + all the others for inspiring me to write this.

 

Nah

 

Care to elaborate or poke holes?

 

I have so many questions...

1) Why is half the text crossed out?
2) Bail and Breha didn't realize their daughter was swaped for a different baby?
3) Why would Luke keep quiet if he ever found out Leia is not his sister?
4) Wasn't Leia referring to Breha when she said her mother died when she was little? It's impossible for her to have any memory at all of Padme
5) What??

 

I want to know more about this 'Sith Breading Program'.

 

Um... it's an intriguing idea; however, let's think about this...

So (if we're assuming 'today' is current day TFA) 50 years ago... Luke and Rey are born. For whatever reason, Luke is taken by Obi-Wan... and Rey is... somehow apprehended away from Obi-Wan by Palpatine and encased in carbonite (as a young infant). And then 30 years pass (ANH, ESB, ROTJ go by)... Snoke finds the "lost" carbonite princess, thaws her out, and raises her enough to develop an attachment to "family" - only to deposit her on Jakku.

So then are we assuming that...
1) Obi-Wan didn't know the second half of the twins was "swapped" / "stolen" by Palpatine?
2) If Palpatine was aware of the twins being born, and was able to do a swap... doesn't that then make an existing plot hole to become even bigger --- Skywalker being on Tattooine in between RotS and ANH?
3) As for Snoke's intention of making Rey become "dark" by developing a family attachment, only to rip her away from them... I would think there are easier and less convoluted ways to make people "dark"
4) And while we know that science is not "exact" in the SW universe, do we know if Han actually aged between ESB and RotJ?

It's a nice theory, and an intriguing one... but I don't think it'll fly.

 

The first post showed up that way after I posted. I edited it to fix that. Does it still look broken?

They had just received a baby that was not their own, neither of them FS. Unless they had a DNA test which would cause even bigger plot problems if Leia is his sister.

Because Leia is from a Sith breeding program and when she tried to awaken her force abilities the intense darkness terrified both of them. Only Luke sensed that she was not his sister. He lied to protect her because he believed the truth would make her go dark.

4) Wasn't Leia referring to Breha when she said her mother died when she was little? It's impossible for her to have any memory at all of Padme
[/quote]
Here is the dialog

Princess Leia: Luke, what’s wrong?
Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?
Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.
Luke: What do you remember?
Princess Leia: Just… images really. Feelings.
Luke: Tell me.
Princess Leia: She was… very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this?
Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.

So let's examine this carefully.

Most people assume she is referring to Breha. The thing is Bretha died Alderaan in the Death Star 1.0 attack.

From http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Breha_Organa

"Let us take a moment to honor the lost souls of Alderaan. To honor Viceroy Bail Organa and Queen Breha Organa. May they forever be remembered."―Leia Organa​

​

from http://www.starwars.com/databank/queen-breha-organa

QUEEN BREHA ORGANA​

​

Breha Organa was a human female from Alderaan and the monarch of that planet. She was married to Senator Bail Organa and together they adopted Princess Leia, one of the twins borne of the union between of Padme Amidala and Anakin Skywalker. As her husband worked to build the loose underground network of cells that would eventually become the rebel alliance, she would mentor students personally on Alderaan, including the X-wing pilot Evaan Verlaine. It is presumed that the queen perished on Alderaan when the entire planet was destroyed by the Empire’s super-weapon, the Death Star.​

So Leia's adoptive mother did not die when she was very young. It would not be possible to remember Padme as you point out.

If Leia came from a Sith breeding program and she was forcibly taken by Palpatine from her mother who was locked in a lab as the victim of a horrible experiment would explain the dialog, especially "mostly images, really Feelings" and "very beautiful. Kind, but sad".

We could further posit that that mother and child had a bond through which they experience a connection for a time until Palatine/her handlers realizes this and kills her.

It's true... all of it

 

Hey Azpiri, thanks for the great comments. Replies mixed in below.

She is taken From Queen Breha Organa after Kenobi drops her off. She's a queen and probably has servants looking after her. Lot's of good reasons to explain a switch. Also Bail and Breha are a major family and part of the Imperial Senate so there would be plenty of Imperial spies around.

yes.

correct. He is hiding out on Tatooine. Force users are not very good at identify verification.

• In Star Wars Vader did not instantly detect Kenobi until he actively used the force.
• Vader did not recognize Luke until the time of Empire. This is someone he spent weeks (months?) with as a fetus inside of Padme.

In Carbonite Princess, Leia is still strong in the force and Kenobi spends no time that we see with her.

Palatine did not learn of the twins. He only heard from his spy network that a prominent Senator and Queen adopted a baby with questionable background and no DNA data within days of Padme's death.

I can think of easier things too but doing it like this let's him turn her into a monster and destroy Luke, Han and Leia too.

There is nothing in the lore that suggests being frozen in carbonite works any differently than cryogenics is intended to work on Earth. If you stop or massively slow metabolism then you don't age or age very slowly. This is an interesting thought. She could have aged 6 years during the 25 years in carbonate and we literally see her recovering from carbonite sickness when she is dumped on Jakku. That scene in the Forceback has some of the same qualities of Han waking up in Jedi.

Thanks again for the great discussion