New sports forum discussion.

To the proposal I say nay.

I can see a forum like that dying very quickly. Sports are seasonal and some people (like me) are devoted to only one sport. Once that season ends they either go on to the very next sport and ignore the other sport until it's season comes around again or go on (like me) to other interests until things like Major League drafts or preseason or when the regular season starts.

And then you have sports like the Olympics that come around every four years.

Unlike the Sci - Fi forums, I don't see the strength there for a full on Sports forum.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

 

I've read every post in the thread since I last posted and I can say that this post in particular is what really makes me think that the Administration doesn't understand what we mean by "talking sports".


There's an enormous potential for precisely what it is you don't see a need for. A sports forum would allow sports fans on the JC a place to dissect and have in-depth discussions about what could potentially happen in certain situations, what previously happened, and what lies ahead.


Take College Football for example. There are something around 119 Division 1-A big time college football teams that we're jamming into a single thread. I'd love to discuss the finer points of the SEC Western division with a couple of users, but it would totally hijack the thread. Sports in general is vastly more complicated then you're giving it credit for. There are so many potential angles to be discussed that it is truly a disservice to shove it all into one thread.

I would like to be able to make a thread talking about the BCS rankings. Does anyone have any idea what goes into determining those rankings? I can tell from the Administration's response that they really do not, because it's not something that can be talked about in a thread along with all the other College Football topics and still have it make sense. It would result in mayhem in the thread, so we refrain from doing it and stick to the shallow conversations that go on.


This certainly isn't limited to College Football. Look at Major League Baseball... If I want to discuss the outlook of the 2007 American League Central Division in terms of prospective pitching rotations, batting lineups, possible free agents, trading moves, contract negotiations, managerial strategies, farm systems, and not to mention statistics where would I go to do that? In the MLB Official thread? Only if I want to turn the thread from being the MLB thread into the American League Central Division thread. There is simply an astronomical amount of discussion to be had in sports. Far, far more than the Senate or Ampitheatre could offer (which is no disrespect, I enjoy reading in those forums quite a bit).


Not to mention that a healthy sports forum on the already reputable JC would do absolute wonders for traffic once the word got out. If you've ever checked out ESPN's College Football Top 25 board on a Saturday afternoon, it reminds me of the 3SA when the trailers came out. I'm not saying they'd all flock here, but if you want growth which seems apparent then this is the next step in the right direction (not to mention, the ESPN boards aren't even in the same league as the JC).


I'm passionate about this because I think people are only looking at what is being discussed and think it will go no farther than that in a new Sports forum. You would all be very much surprised about the depth and scope of what could be discussed, however.

 

"however, i am arguing that sports threads make up an essential piece of the pie, so to speak, and that they collectively comprise several communities that are important to the overall health of the jcc."

Come one KW, how many times have we pulled content out of JCC and like sands through the hourglass something else fills the void?

We pulled serious film/literature/art discussion out for the Amph.
We pulled serious sci-fi discussion out for the SFFF.
We pulled serious political/social/religous discussion out for the Senate.
we pulled all video game discussion out when Games opened up to all genres of games.
We pulled discussion of other LFL projects out.
We pulled RPG threads out when the RPF opened to non-SW RPG's.
We pulled discussion about SW tv series and cartoons out for SW Small Screen.

JCC is like a super-immune system that can't be killed, there'll always be someone to post a hot new lunch thread or a discussion of that hot new girl at Target

Like I said pages back, there's clearly interest in a new forum so give it a whirl.
I'm 95% certain that JCC wouldn't suffer in the slightest way.

As for not being SW-centric, I'd say the entire site has been slowly moving away from SW since ROTS finished up anyway. I think it's quit a blinkered attitude to hold if you think that concious decisions weren't made to open the Sci-Fi forums to combat that. I find the concept of a Sports forum very similar to that, you'd probably be doing yourselves a favour and the owner might actually be pleaed in the end.

 

So I just took a look at the "Games" forum. It's divided into three categories.

Games: Videogames - Thumbs are worn down or brain is turned to mush from video games? If not, come here and we'll help you fix this problem...

Games: CCG, TCG, and Boardgames - Discuss Decipher's Customizable Card Game, Young Jedi CCG, and Jedi Knights TCG as well as Star Wars Boardgames!

Games: RPG & Miniatures - Whether you are a fan of D20, D6 or WOTC Minis you know how much fun living and playing a character in the Star Wars Galaxy can be. Here is the place to discuss all aspects of it.


The Videogames forum gets enough traffic.

The RPG & Miniatures forum gets some traffic, but on a day to day basis.

The CCG, TCG, and Boardgames forum, which has a description indicating it may only be for Star Wars games gets about 2 posts per week. Every thread past page 1 is locked and half the threads on page 1 are locked. The bottom thread on my page 1 has a last post dating back to November of 2005. Also most of the games discussed in this forum are Star Wars card games. There's a chess and checkers thread combined together and that's about it. It's about as close to a dead forum as I've ever seen.

I say combine a sports forum with a games forum. Then put it in the JC Community link and see what happens. You'd be granting the wishes of the users, and breathing new life into a dead forum.

I really do not believe the JCC will die from this. Like has been said, it never died with the other divisions.

 

Before I say anything else, I'd like to tip my hat to ApolloSmileGirl in the way she brought this to Comms and how she's responded throughout the thread. In fact, the thread as a whole is a testament to how far we've come. It's healthy debate without flaming.

As mods, we can't say anymore that we're not going to allow a sports forum because we believe the JCC isn't broken. If that were true, we would not see this idea proposed again and again. What I want to convey above all else, is that you have our attention and we are listening. For years, I didn't think this was a good idea. It wasn't because of diluting the JCC. For me, I had other things in mind that would occur sooner in the timeline when and if we'd expand the boards. I envisioned a Sci-Fi and Fantasy Forum. Well, check that off the list. I just was never sure about sports. It certainly isn't at the core of why the site was started. Then again, we're nowhere near that place in time.

Like many have said, you can take anything out of the JCC and you won't kill it. If there was a dedicated sports forum, you couldn't disallow what we currently allow in the JCC for discussion of sports. It's just that this new forum would allow much more specific topics and detail. You can see in this thread that lost of folks are either absolutely for it and others are absolutely against it. But I'd say most are right in the middle. They could be fine with either decision.

I look at the JCC and I don't see a forum overwhelmed by spotrs threads or the current one's all that active. We've had social threads lasting a much shorter duration than many of these long-standing sports threads and the post count of the social threads blow the sports one's out of the water. Number of posts is also not indicative of interest overall. It could be because folks have become resigned that what they post will be lost, overlooked, or they'd rather go to another site where they can really dig into sports discussion. Maybe it's not that sports aren't so big here as much as it is we don't facilitate its discussion as best we could.

We've sliced the JCC many times and it's always thrived. It's still the most active forum we have. The name 'community' really means moer than it ever has in this era without new Star Wars films. The Senate is 'serious JCC'. The Amph is former generic movie and theater JCC threads that are now 'more in-depth'. It could be argued that Amph is a logical JCC-split because it's still within the genre. The Senate really isn't but it's found a home. In other words, there is no equation to apply.

I can see that this is a topic that is very important to many people. I am considering the idea. With anything this big, I listen to all sides. What I want is for discussion in here to continue. It's more helpful to me than you realize. I need to see it. I've read every post in here. I also started a poll in the Mod Squad to see where the mods are at this point in time. Their results will not become the decision. The options I wrote in the poll were Yes / No / or to Change JCC policy as it relates to sports threads.

I want to be honest with you. If we do this, I see no real detriment at all to the sustainability of the JCC especially if we continue to allow what we've always allowed in terms of sports threads. That means at this particular point in time, I'm somewhere between creating the new forum and revising current rules. If we did create a new forum, like any major endeavor there will be a lot of discussion about how it would operate. This is what we did for the Senate, Amph, and the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Forums.

Thank you all for your input and we will discuss this in private with as much consideration for the passion behind your posts while continuing to read and participate in this thread.

 

That's really all we can ask for Sape. Thanks

 

i'd much rather there be a new forum than any revision of jcc rules/policy. but, that's just me.

 

Heeeeeeeeeeeeey. I think that was a hidden dig at me.

 

I'd be up for a separate sports forum, as well. We'd be giving the sports nuts a niche spot, which is one of the great things the JC boards have done for a lot of other groups, and potentially generating a new crop of posters who come for the sports forum and stay for the other things this place offers.

 

Yeah that's definately very fair, Sape.

 

Yes that is very very fair, thanks for posting here with us today Sape

 

I'm a user who personally, wouldn't mind seeing a seperate forum for sports, but I understand the administration's view on this issue. Not to be redundant, but thanks for the post Sape.

 

Very fair, and If the idea is even being considered, I've accomplished what I've set out to do. Considering this thread is less than 24 hours old, I can't wait to see more feedback on the subject. I'd also like to see users make suggestions of what they would like to see in a dedicated sports forum, if the proposal is eventually approved.

I'd like to thank everyone that has posted opinions, whether they be for or against this proposal becoming a reality.

I'd also like to thank Sapient for taking the time to read this entire thread, and giving the idea more consideration than I believe it's been given in the past.

It just goes to show that if you bring up an idea in Comms, and you take the time to explain the possible benefits, in a calm and rational matter, the staff here will take the time to listen and weigh in on your ideas.

 

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it would not have. The Senate was created with a 3 month deadline for proving it's use otherwise it would just be folded back into the JCC. And this was long before the ability to move threads was introduced here.

 

The Amph also had a trial period, if I recall correctly, Dingo.

Also, just a very small misconception:

Incorrect. One is a movie thread, and the other is a book thread. It has been that way for over 6 months now. It is clear why two are needed if they are defined as they are.


Regarding the actual debate (my god, is it really 6 pages already? ) I have to say that I really find the arguments against a Sports forum flawed. It appears to me to be the same arguments that were made against the Amph and the Senate floor when they were created. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. Thinking about it now, I do not think it would take any activity out of the JCC at all - as with the Senate and the Amph, the users will continue to discuss the topics in a light-hearted manner, while more in-depth discussion goes in the Sports forum. If that detracts from the community, then I should step down from my position for aiding and abetting the death of the JC since I became Amph mod. But yeah, I think the point is that people don't want to take Sports out of JCC - they just want a place to discuss them with more depth. The way I see it is that if we can provide users with yet another reason to come here, then we'd be stupid not to. I mean, really, the reason that this whole place has kept going is because we have non-SW forums. I can't speak for the majority of the JC population, but personally, the last time I posted in a movie forum (save SW Music, but considering that that is a niche forum and one that includes many non-SW aspects I don't feel it counts) was probably three or four times last year when ROTS came out. Before then, it was probably years.

That said, I'm not necessarily for a Sports forum. Although I see no good argument against it, I am yet to really believe that it would get the activity to warrant a new forum. I'm still on the fence.

 

Guys, this reply really shows the greatness of my old friend Sape. Such an awesome post from a truely great leader.

 

Thats essentially my point. Maybe the reason all new forums that have been opened with a trial period, have eventually gone forward and been kept, is because their effect on existing forums hasn't been as bad or damaging as was feared. However, IF a new sports forum forum did have a damaging impact on JCC, I know it would be shelved, because everyone loves JCC and nobody wants to see it damaged.

Really, when you look at the evolution of Senate and Amph, it seems like a sports/games forum is just a continuation of that natural evolution.

 

i think a lot of the points that have been raised in opposition to the idea are fairly subjective and personal... the ONLY way to test whether a Sports Forum is, or would be a good idea is to test it out and see what happens. simple. you can't look at the current sport discussion in the JCC as an example of why a forum isn't needed because it isn't a fair comparison.

also, as others have said, just because new forums have been created in a similar 'test phase' and never been subsequently closed doesn't mean the 'test phase' idea should be scrapped. surely it just means that, so far, whenever a new forum has been created it has never needed to be scrapped because of the relative success of it and the enjoyment it's created for its users. if this occurs here, too, then that can only be a positive.

and in the interests of the boards as a whole going into the future, more focus being on the Community, and away from Star Wars, is a healthy thing.

 

Exactly. At least the idea wasn't squashed without discussion. Just imagine how much fun a few heated rivalry threads would be. That, and I'd love the chance to learn about sports that don't get attention in the US from people I've grown to know.

 

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it would not have.

i'm just being a pragmatic: if it's created, it's here to stay. i'm not saying it couldn't technically be folded back into the jcc, i'm just saying it wouldn't be.

 

But I still don't see why the JC should do that for you, rather than a dedicated sports forum where you'll get much more depth from a wider range of people.

And heated rivalries already exist extremely well in the existing threads in the JCC. Take any Arsenal-Everton match for example, or Everton-ManUtd when Everton edited the title of the soccer thread to reflect the result, thus spoiling the end of the game for those of us who were going to catch the highlights show.

Nothing anyone has suggested couldn't be achieved already in the existing threads.

 

lol

 

You have no understanding of how annoyed I was.

 

The existing threads allow for a broad range of discussion, but as has been said before, because a single thread can move very fast you can end up with two or three chats going on at once.

I can't remember who it was but someone posted earlier a scenario where they had put forwards an "in depth" question which had been disregarded after 4 replies.


If I were to post are football wages too high in the "soccer" thread it would get half a dozen responses then some snidey sarcastic JC comments then it would be forgotten. A sports forum would allow us to discuss this in more detail in a dedicated thread where it can stay on topic and be revisited when something new come up rather than going "you know that chat we had 20 pages ago about.....".