Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by Geoff1138, Jun 30, 2006.
Check this out!
Sorry here is the link:
I can't help but wonder:
Is this going to be a 3.0 reprint, 3.5, or 4.0?
This is good news! I can't wait to see what they're going to do with it!
It's possible that it may very well be just a 3rd ed. reprint, but if that were the case, I'd imagine they'd would be inclined to include the pages upon pages of eratta they have for the SWRPG. However, considering the sheer amount of eratta they've made over recent years, an entirely new edition is certainly warrented in its own right.
this could be awesome! or it could suck! heh
288 pages, sounds good. I hope it's not just the RotS collection bundled in with the existing thing
But Moridin is the second name on the author's list, hitting the big time, he is!
That gives me hope
The 288 pages is curious, the RCRB is 320 pages I believe? Surely this can't be shorter?
I find it very weird that Wizards has just released on their website a nice PDF with all the collected errata for the Revised Core Rulebook. That goes directly against them releasing a new revised edition, cause anyone who has the old book can be perfectly satisfied with just this PDF and won't be interested in a new book.
I know it's hard to believe, but not every RPG-er has the internet, so for some that might be the only way to get ahold of the information easily. Then there's also the fact that some people might not want to print off however many pages the full errata is, or they want a hardcopy of it to mesh nicely with the rulebook.
Besides which, they may be planning a major revision to the rules in 9 months time and the errata pdf is just meant to tide us over til then.
What do you think the SAGA edition Core Rulebook will be?
I think that it's basically going to be a reprint of much of the material in the RCRB with, of course, the pages of changes in the errata and the conversion of a large portion of the material to 3.5. I'm going to say that the shorter page number is a result of more streamlined rules, and perhaps, an overhauled space combat system.
Essentially, a well needed update to the RCRB.
Sweet! I hope they can overhaul the space combat system... it definetly needs it.
I think we can expect a nice overhaul of lots of things space-related when the new Starships Miniatures game comes out.
And hopefully a new starship sourcebook.
NCIE, KICKASS, SWEET!
Aren't the rules in the RCRB based on D&D 3.5? If not, what are the main differences between 3.0 and 3.5?
This is kind of funny. For lack of anything better to do, I've been revamping all the Force and Force-using class rules to deal with a lot of things I finally decided I didn't like: remade everything from classes, presitge classes, feats, skills, new Force system.... 52 pages so far. Made in a kind of "OGL" way so that I can use it with any d20 system. Now there's a new book coming out.
Probably for the best, though, I don't think I'll be impressed with whatever they're going to dish out next. This book's shorter length, and the way they tried to brush aside the RPG to push the miniatures game, giving it top billing and then stopping the RPG line, makes me wonder if they're not going to try to merge the two to reach a wider audience and get people to buy the minis because they're part of the rules system.
With fewer pages, I'm thinking there's two scenarios...
Best case scenario: they streamlined and improved the rules system. Very easy to do. They even had this thing in Jedi Counseling where they take all the Force skills down to three: Alter, Control and Sense. (I found this after I decided to almost the exact same thing in my own system.) You can knock out a couple dozen feats just by turning all those +2/+2 skill feats into one +2/+2 skill feat where you choose where the bonuses go. You really don't need the Fringer class. For that matter... I'm finding most of the classes are kind of lackluster and I've been thinking of adding my Force system to d20 Modern so people can just build their own character from the more generic classes. I've already made the Force classes into a sort of d20 Modern style with a base padawan class, advanced knight class (but ironically, with one path there's a lot more choice... I made sure to make everything customizable than Guardian or Consular: assign your own save progressions, bonus class skills, etc) and everything else is prestige. Same with Force Adept. Now it's Force Novice > Force Adept > prestige classes.
Most likely scenario: It's going to be a cheesy, lackluster WoTC way to try to sell the miniatures game to the RPG market with few substantive improvements. You'll have an entirely miniatures-based combat system that will encourage or perhaps even require people to buy the minis.
After messing around with the rules with an eye toward changing them, I'm finding all kinds of things I don't like. And to have them suddenly pick up the line again after dumping it... doesn't sound good.
After all that time futzing arround with feats, WotC decides to pick up WEG's system of Control, Sense, & Alter.
Though they kinda had to use it cos it got canonised following WEG's development of it. I think stackpole or anderson made a point of it in the JAT trilogy or I, Jedi. Maybe even Zahn in the thrawn trilogy.
Only thing I might have done differently is a kinda 'Force Mastery' SQ that... Consulars get every 3 levels, Guardians every five, which gives a bonus to an individual force power you have learnt. Similar I guess to the Force Secret Jedi Masters get.
you're a level 6 Consular with
With a +1 Bonus to battlemind (making it +8 over all as it's a control based skill)
and a +1 bonus to sense force (making it +10 overall as it's a sense based skill)
Now, apart from maxing out a skill, it can also show a level of specialisation that can create a legend of the character with it. Palpatine and Force Lightning, Yoda and enhance ability, Obi-Wan and mind tricks.
I haven't playtested this and may not at any point, but you can get an idea for what it'd be like.
Hopefully one written and illustrated by someone who knows what they are doing... We don't need another fiasco like CTD, Starships of the Galaxy, or the NEGtVV
Bah! Nobody wants to know what the K-wing reallllllly looks like.
Don't joke with me, moderator man!
To provide some measure of specialization and uniqueness, I did this in my version of d20 Force rules:
Feat: Force Specialty
Requires a minimum of two different Force techniques.
This feat provides a +2 aptitude bonus to the Force skills of Alter, Control and Sense when using two different, specified Force techniques that are selected by the player when the feat is taken. This feat may be taken multiple times, and each time it applies to two different techniques.
Note: Force techniques are how I term "powers" under my system: Move Object, Heal Self, etc. SWRPG Revised Force Techniques (ie, metamagic like Split Force) are called Force Manipulations.
Basically, it replaces all of the stupid +2/+2 skill bonus Force feats.
And in place of Force bloodlines:
Feat: Force Bloodline
You gain an inherent +2 bonus to an entire line of Force techniques of your choice at the time of character creation, but you can never learn one different and complete line of Force Techniques also chosen at the time of character creation. For instance, the Halcyon bloodline cannot learn Move Object or any Force technique under Move Object but they gain a +2 inherent bonus to Alter Perceptions and all Force techniques under Alter Perceptions (Mind Trick, Force Cloak, Dominate and Illusion.) There must be at least as many Force techniques in the banned line as there are in the line with the bonus. In the example, Alter Perceptions is a line consisting of five techniques and Move Object is a line consisting of six techniques. The GM is the final arbiter as to whether or not a bloodline is acceptable and balanced, or makes sense. Not all lineages of Force users have Force Bloodline effects such as this, and they are in fact fairly rare. A Force Bloodline can only be taken at level one, even if the character is not yet Force Sensitive and the player plans to open his character up to the Force at some later point.
Normal: A Force Sensitive character can take any Force techniques and feats, provided they have the prerequisite techniques.
Also, certain class abilities allow you to increase your talent with a specific power/ability, like this adaptation from Jedi Master:
The Jedi Master discovers a Force secret at 1st, 3rd, and 6th levels. Each time, the Jedi Master may select the same secret (improving its effect by one) or choose a different secret. These secrets improve the results of certain Force techniques:
- Increase the Force bonus provided by Battlemind by +1
- Increase the Force bonus provided by Force Defense by +1
- Increase the Force bonus provided by Force Weapon Defense by +1
- Decrease the Force Point cost of Move Object (and costs for techniques using the Move Object table) by one.
- Increase the amount of healing from Heal Self or Heal Another (choose one) by +1.
- Provide a +1 Force bonus to skill checks for any single Force technique.
60 pages of
I dunno about you guys, but I don't know if this is going to be a revised RCR by the title on amazon. It just sounds like an additional individual sourcebook. Meaning tons more content, most of which we know will be RotS stuff. A couple of systems might get overhauls here and there, but i think it'll largely stay the same.
With Star Wars Saga edition, I'm hoping the EU focused sourcebooks start coming out too. A New Republic era sourcebook around the same size, revised and complete NJO sourcebook, Legacy of the Force era. TotJ/Kotor era...
I'm actually hoping that it is an overhaul (as evidenced by my big crazy project creating a game that already exists.) If you build enough flexibility into the system, you can handle all the eras rules-wise and separate setting books aren't as necessary for anything other than GM information.
Maybe it's because of what I'm doing, but I just see so many flaws when I take a good look at it after all this time - things I perceive as flaws, at least:
- Specific deflect abilities gained at levels throughout various classes means that it's possible for some characters to never get more advanced versions of the ability with the "wrong" class choices. Also, it should be linked to Fighting Defensively and Total Defense... basically that's what they're doing when they deflect and as they keep saying that that's how Jedi should fight most of the time, they need an incentive to do so.
- Some Force skill choices wouldn't make much sense in the SW galaxy... being able to Force Choke or Strike someone but not taking any ranks in Move Object. You can crush organs and smack people but you can't lift the tiniest flit. We've never seen anything to suggest that.
- Some things that resemble "powers" similar to the Force skills are feats or feats behave like skills (from costs to effects to special notes), some things that are skills do even less than those feats.
- With sourcebooks adding on to the choices, you've got way too many skills and way too many feats to accomplish what some very average characters can access through the Force. Plus the fact that it puts the rules "all over the place."
- Increase lightsaber damage. It just feels... wrong. You see characters customize lightsabers in SW in several places (Corran's dual phase, KOTOR, all the unique hilts that might hold advantages (perhaps to resist disarms, or hide some utility feature)) but you never see them go "hey, my lightsaber does more damage now!" Helps make lightsaber duels come down to the first hit, and much faster than any of the iconic duels.
- Magical level seven, the Knight class. Allows for very little flexibility. There's no room for a character who is a prodigy or takes a little more time to officially be recognized. Either you pass, or you don't learn anything more (which doesn't help the people who couldn't pass, and seems to contradict the idea of continuing to be a padawan and trying again later, as many characters did.) And after that, you're still the same "thing" (class) as you were before Jedi Knight. There's no sense of 'graduating' although this is the Jedi's biggest milestone (apart from becoming a Master), you just keep on going until you take a prestige class.
- The two main classes. Aside from not making much of a distinction in the films and most books, you're stuck with them, and although they are two separate paths, they're very narrow in terms of customization or specialization. You're either diplomatic combat monkey or uber combat monkey. And why is it that you could, in theory, become both a Weapon Master (presige) and a Healer (prestige) as long as you meet the prerequisites, but you could never be a Guardian and a Consular? (I made them both prestige classes, along with Sentinel. Guardian as more of a defensive class like a Dwarven Defender (think Ganner Rhysode - "You shall not pass!") and Consulars with a more diplomatic focus, plus Sentinels in place of investigators but more sneaky.)
- speaking of things like Weapon Master... while sometimes you see these over-the-top things in the comics, maybe, and obviously the video games... you never see a Jedi that would devote his entire focus to just his weaponry or combat for half of his career / life. Even in the background, the comics and video game characters focus on more than that even if it's just brought up in passing. They spend chapter after chapter through the entire line telling you not to play a Jedi if you're doing it for the lightsaber or the fighting, then they say "Look, sir, crunchy combat options!" Check out all the combat monkey goodness, b
I'm hoping it's a new version of the rules (completely overhaul everything!), and I hope it doesn't suck. If we get a Force system that's a bit more like KotOR (but a bit more balanced), I will be very happy. If not, I'll just keep playing with my miniatures.