New Theory! Palpatine Created Anakin & Luke!!!

I get that from the film. I would assume that it would be obvious that Plagueis tested it out to create the ultimate Sith Lord to use against the Jedi. The Sith always want the most powerful Apprentice and this is about as powerful as you can get. The proof that it might have been Anakin and not some lizard, comes from the film and the New Essential Chronology.

 

Face it, there is NO proof! There is only the words of a cynical and manipulative evil, evil man/Sith! No evidence at all... Prove the evidence in the film, because you have yet to prove it!

 

If there was proof, I would have to say it lies in a lot of the dialogue and the scene set-ups themselves. Things make more sense rolling on this info. But ultimately, it is still only an interpretation.

 

I agree with you on that. It is a highly valid interpretation. Interpreting scenes is a much of the magic of SW. However, when we are discussing which is more likely than the other, I would like to see some evidence - I would not, however, discard the theory that Anakin was created by the Sith!

 

Where in the films is the proof that the Midichlorians acted on the influence of the Force? None.

 

He did bring balance to the force - so at least there is proof that he was the chosen one, and the chosen one was according to the Jedi created by the force - not sith. That is at least some slim proof. You have nothing

 

Your theory is an interesting one. I have a question though... If Sidious could see into the future, then wouldn't Sidious know that Anakain Skywalker would throw him and kill him? I mean why would you plan your own death?

 

A prophecy that might have been misread, according to Yoda.

 

Luke not turning and Vader turning back good were things he did not count on or could foresee. He probably even saw Luke turning, but the power of Luke is he didn't. He resisted the ultimate temptation and the power of that act turned the whole tide.

 

Sinister: You only provide small phrases from the characters. I can agree that your theory is not that far out there, but it is less probable than the other. Yoda was most likely referring to how things were going to turn out - not that he was a child of the devil himself. Palpatine's word is not to be trusted as you can trust no dictator!

 

Dictator, shmictator. There's no reason to assume that he is or isn't lying.

 

An act of betrayal that he could not see.

What does it matter if he betrayed him because he was a good guy again vs. still a bad guy wanting more power?

 

If Vader remained a Sith, he would've killed Palpatine in a manner that would not result in his own death. Or he would've let Luke die and then go after Leia. But by becoming good again, Anakin sacrifices himself to save his son and thereby brings an end to the Sith Order. The former betrayal is just another part of being a Sith. The latter is the kind of betrayal that the Sith never encountered before. A Sith who becomes a Jedi and performs a heroic, selfless act of compassion. Sidious was totally taken back by it.

 

And when he told Anakin that all Jedi were traitors, that was not a lie? Or was it the truth from his POV? Just as the truth about Plageous was a truth from his POV to fool Anakin... You've said it before that Palpatine was the master manipulator - what makes you think he didn't manipulate here?

 

The Jedi ultimately became traitors with their actions in trying to take down Palpatine. Regardless of manipulation, the Jedi did illegal actions. Just like the Alliance. Morally right is different from legally right. Anyway, you're arguing a different subject here. Lucas has left it ambigious. The fact that he said it is meant to be ambigious means that there might be a grain of truth in there. Not everything a Sith Lord says is a lie. That's what is fundamentally different about them this time. They tell the truth more than they lie.

 

Well, that is an interesting topic - one that you could perhaps make a thread out of if you can formulate it properly? Would be interesting...

It was Sideous who made them traitors as soon as Palpatine became a dictator. When the law is made up by dictators and tyrants it is no longer law. It is the opposite of law, and it is what you must fight. I agree that not everything a Sith Lord says is a lie, but it mostly depends on a POV that will require twisting and bending the truth!

As for the ambiguity: Ofcourse, otherwise we would not be discussing at all. And thank god he left it ambigous - it makes it more interesting. It would probably make a good thesis! My only quarrel with you this time is that I believe that there is more evidence supporting the theory that Anakin was created by the force, but the Jedi did not have enough knowledge on the prophecy...

 

Check out PT.

 

I don't believe in this theory. The Force created Anakin, as its Chosen One to bring balance to itself. The Orders had to be brought to an end. I think both Orders ignored the Will of the Force, such that they could never return to true clarity. Though QuiGon did obey the will of the force, and ignored the will of the council, and maybe that is why he attained immortality in the force.

 

I agree that more than likely this is how Qui Gon achieved immorality through the force. He is ahead of the curve at all times and must bring Obi Wan & Yoda to this understanding. This is why the rest of the order doesn't make it this far, at least as far as the movies are concerned. But that still doesn't close down the fact that Palpatine could pull off what I believe he did and that is "to create life". The key to making this theory plausible is what it's saying is no matter how good the devil think he is, he can never trump "true good". This is why evil never truly triumphs.

 

Evil cannot win against love, which is pure and good.

Qui-gon became a ghost because he was selfless and unattached. Filled with compassion and unconditional love.

 

Tell that to the people living in Burma!

Ofcourse evil can win against love. Pure evil and pure good, or love, are just antonyms - just as you can use both - both can prevail. In Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell evil did prevail and is in fact perpetuated by evil.

 

I don't think in the nature of things evil can truly win. It's too self defeating to stick around permanantly. I guess you could say that of good also. But the nature of most people is to try and maintain to be mostly good. Evil people always end up messing up their own pot. Just like the law of the Sith. One is always trying to destroy the other. You'll always have longer periods of good than you will evil. The Republic stood for a thousand years! The Empire lasted for what? Twenty some odd years. Huge gap there. Yes, there are parts of the world that seem to just stay mired in a dark, evil atmosphere. But that is also what the news reports to us. The day to day existense for most people is not misery and sadness all day, everyday. They even get a break at some point.The nature of man is not to stay down in the muck and the mire. At some point he will fight back and try to come out of it. Those that don't are probably at the point of being considered a lost cause and have completely given up. Now, THAT is a case of evil truly winning. If you fight to the end, you may lose, but you lived on hope and survival to make it. That's the best anybody can do and deserves the greatest reward, which hopefully they will get on the other side. Like Master Yoda and Obi Wan.

 

That is the thought we all want to believe in. The truth is that the world is evolving, and we don't know the outcome of it. What is evil and what is good is often a grey area and a subject open for interpretation. Some argue that the USA is the best country in the world, others argue it is the epitome of evil!

If you can perpetuate war, it is possible to subdue people due to their fear. If you follow a cynical discourse, and know that all you seek is power and thus is searching for a way to perpetuate that power it is possible to maintain it.

You argue that the Republic, the good, lasted for a thousand years. Even a thousand years is not forever - although for the human mind it is as close as you can come I expect. There is a thread here that says the Republic and the Jedi were evil. I don't believe in that, but there are some who do - and for them, evil reigned for a thousand years!

 

Yeah, it is ultimately based on your perspective. But the majority rule wins and most people want to maintain good. It's like you said, "If you can perpetuate war, it is possible to subdue people due to their fear."
And that is what most people think has happened to America. Obviously, you would have to be pretty twisted to not think that America the land is pretty incredible. It's the people in charge who are perpetrating evil and need to go. You know evil when you see it. Even after Anakin stood back and looked at his situation, he knew he had been duped by an evil person. He just couldn't escape it and had to ride with it. But he knew after it was too late. It happens. It can become a very grey area and you lose sight of who's good and who's evil and sometimes end up making the wrong decision that can have dire consequences for everyone. This is the essence of Star Wars. The trick is to be able to clear your head and put things back into perspective and see it for what it is. It may seem grey, but once you open your eyes, there is defintely a good side to things and a bad side. Always has been, always will be. Grey areas are just an illusion of the mind. Like Yoda says, "Do or do not. There is no try." TRY is just a word to comfort those who gave up the effort and make them feel better and rationalize their failure. Ultimately, you either make it happen or you don't. That's the reality.

 

My point about evil cannot defeat love is in reference to the films, not real life. Two completely different entities. In Star Wars, no matter how hard Palpatine tried to corrupt the Skywalkers, he couldn't destroy the one thing that mattered most. Which was the unconditional love between a father and son. I wasn't refering to Burma or anywhere else in real life.