New theory to explain the universe (not mine and quite controversial)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by ceinwyn, Aug 23, 2002.

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  1. ceinwyn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2002
    I know there's a lot of intelligent people here, and a lot of easily inflamed ones too. I'm not posting this to inflame or anything like that. It's just a scientific theory that's underreported and extremely interesting that I would LOVE to hear some remarks on.

    Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm?

    In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of science.

    Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.

    Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light. Since traveling faster than the speed of light is tantamount to breaking the time barrier, this daunting prospect has caused some physicists to try to come up with elaborate ways to explain away Aspect's findings. But it has inspired others to offer even more radical explanations.

    University of London physicist David Bohm, for example, believes Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram.

    To understand why Bohm makes this startling assertion, one must first understand a little about holograms. A hologram is a three- dimensional photograph made with the aid of a laser.

    To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference pattern (the area where the two laser beams commingle) is captured on film.

    When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears.

    The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose.

    Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the original image. Unlike normal photographs, every part of a hologram contains all the information possessed by the whole.

    The "whole in every part" nature of a hologram provides us with an entirely new way of understanding organization and order. For most of its history, Western science has labored under the bias that the best way to understand a physical phenomenon, whether a frog or an atom, is to dissect it and study its respective parts.

    A hologram teaches us that some things in the universe may not lend themselves to this approach. If we try to take apart something constructed holographically, we will not get the pieces of which it is made, we will only get smaller wholes.

    This insight suggested to Bohm another way of understanding Aspect's discovery. Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He argues that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same fundamental something.

    To enable people to bet
  2. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Would you be so kind as to give your own thoughts on this as well? Otherwise, it doesn't quite fit the Senate.
  3. ceinwyn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Hmm, I've always enjoyed being devil's advocate much more than the girl being beaten into a bloody pulp behind the bar .. but I can give an opinion.

    I think it makes perfect sense. My mouth really dropped open as I was reading it because it seems to really answer all those questions we all wonder about. Faith healing, the paranormal, telepathy, all seem to have a root here. Of course the concept of individual identity does get really blurred in this one. I mean, how can I be me and the guy down the street and the chihuaha in the Taco Bell commercials all at the same time? Definitely need more clarification on that.

    Ultimately it's the ultimate humanistic defense - we really DO shape our own destinies. And while that may be a bit unsettling to those of us with religious inclinations, I stil think we can reconcile our belief in God with this explanation of the universe.

    End of the day? I think it's a very workable theory, and the best we've ever had.
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Good enough for me :).

    I look forward to hearing thoughts on this as well.

    In your view, would it be a larger scale version of the idea that all cells in the body can communicate with one another?
  5. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I'll give a quick thought, Einstein called particles at great distances exchanging information "Spooky Physics".

    Down on the quantum level, the every day things we see and touch and MEASURE become meaningless. The smallest amount of time and the smallest measureable size are called Planck Time and Plank Length, below these measurements anything could be possible.
    I don't really believe everything is an illusion, though it is possible that everything we do and say and see becomes ingrained in space-time.

    Really weird things can happen at a singularity, it is probably best we can never see one. All science as we know it, all therories as we know them, break down at the singularity.
    Hawking himself once commented that however improbable, it is NOT impossible that if we could see a naked singularity a guy could pop out with horns, pitch fork and an army of demons behind him.
    Well, he did not literally say that but at the lecture of this ideal he implied it heavily and CHUCKLED about it.

    So, weird things are possible in the Universe, however improbable, but this holo-universe sounds like a philosophy theory only.
  6. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    All while reading the article I just found myself nodding at the points made, because this is what I've come to believe (through meditation and prayer) about the nature of the universe. Not only that, but it explains some things that have happened in my life that defy explanation.

    I was wondering if you could please provide a link to the orginal document...

    Put quite simply, it ceases to exist. As the religions of the East have long upheld, the material world is Maya, an illusion, and although we may think we are physical beings moving through a physical world, this too is an illusion.

    Also, I was going to bring this point up, but it looks like whoever wrote the article knew their stuff :)
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Wylding, from what you understand of it, what bearing might this idea have on things like intuition and similar abilities/experiences?
  8. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Even though I don't go along with it, it is not impossible to place 6 billion people in a holographic environment.

    This is just an example:
    A Dyson Sphere would be a shell (Wether its a solid shell or made up of individual orbitals doesn't matter to illustrate this) with a radius equal to Earth's orbit which enshrouds the Sun to capture all of its energy. Cover the surface (You actually would not need all of it) with whatever computer processing architecture you can dream up. What you would have is a computer mind that could emulate and process the entire history of human thought in millionsTH of a second(There have been approx 100 billion people who have ever walked on the earth).
  9. ADMIRALSPUZZUM Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2002
    star 4
    Wow. Absolutly fascinating stuff, but when told my hand to go away, it stayed :D

    Fascinating nonetheless.
  10. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Well, put simply I think that intuition and the like are there because we operate on a higher level in one place. Meaning that we are not seperate on a higher dimensional plane. For example, we've all had an experience where we've been in a crowd, on the freeway, or at the store, etc. where we've had the feeling that we're being watched. You turn your head and surprise, you look right into the eyes of someone who has been watching you. I think this happens because on some level we are all interconnected with each other, our actions and our thoughts have power and affect each other. We can sense this on some level and react to it (look over and make eye contact).

    This "6th sense" can be trained.

    I hope that answers part of your question KnightWriter :)

    It was a hard question you see...

  11. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I don't see this as supporting only eastern religions, to me this makes a heck of a lot more sense if there was some sort of God that had set up the hologram or something.
  12. Rogue_Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2001
    star 3
    Fascinating theory. I agree with Coolguy, it makes you wonder who set up the hologram in the first place.
  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Interesting notion, so the "I think therefore I'am." quote is quite accurate. Though.....if we're just fake, what happens when we die? And what's our purpose? Is God some slob in a bowling shirt playing out our lives for his own amusement?
  14. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Interesting stuff, all.

    This has been around for awhile, it's basically an extension of quantum mechanics.

    By the way, "Planck Time" is not the smallest unit; you can actually get to a billionth of a billionth of a second. It's the length of time of the existence of certain virtual subatomic particles and patterns.

    Scientific American's latest issue, cover called "A Matter of Time", has numerous articles on this subject.

    Peace,

    V-03
  15. Force-User Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2002
    star 1
    Once again, the key to all this comes back to a "supreme maker". God.
  16. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    How do you know that the holographic universe itself isn't God? I think it fits the criteria. It created us. It knows what we're going to do next. It controls our actions. We become one with it after death.
  17. scum&villainy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 4
    I think you're getting carried away there.

    Surely the point that's being missed is that this article isn't saying 'everything is a hologram', it's suggesting that the dispersion of electrons within the universe is of a similar nature to that of a hologram, ie that they appear to be part of a single matrix.

    This has little bearing on religion; this matter is a purely scientific one.
  18. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with you there. I was actually trying to point out that people are getting a little carried away with all the religion stuff, actually. I guess it didn't come across that way...

    But I don't see how this would change anyone's idea of religion or God, really.
  19. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Once again, the key to all this comes back to a "supreme maker". God.

    That is one way, but certainly not the only way, to look at it.

    Peace,

    V-03
  20. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    EDIT:

    Nothing ticks me off more, the links don't work even though the pages are there.
    Never mind.
  21. scum&villainy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 4
    ceinwyn - do you have a link to this report?

    I'd like to read more.
  22. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    Brain overload...can't...read...that much...science... :: death rattle::
  23. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    This really sounds interesting. Something to think about when you look up at the stars at night.

    And to think this comes right back to god is ridiculous. Please leave god in the religious threads.
  24. ktwsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2001
    star 4
  25. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    And to think this comes right back to god is ridiculous. Please leave god in the religious threads

    No, it's not ridiculous. Some people have already linked this to God, and that alone should be reason enough to discuss the implications between God and this idea.
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