New theory to explain the universe (not mine and quite controversial)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by ceinwyn, Aug 23, 2002.

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  1. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    As scum&villainy said...

    "Its a purely scientific matter...NOT A RELIGIOUS ONE"

    In order to moderate a topic...shouldn't the moderator be objective? And not choose a side?
  2. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Ahh, but when science points toward a creator what then my friend?
  3. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    I don't see science pointing at god. I see science helping to disprove outdated concepts like religions.

    Here we are, the new millenium...and we are still quaking in fear of a myth, created thousands of years ago, by a MAN.

    Yes, the Bible was written by one or more of us, flawed, fallible, mistake prone, humans.

    If god truly wrote the bible...wouldn't one of the publishing companies that produce bibles have at least met with god's publicist?
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    A moderator can both be part of a discussion and objective when necessary. If a moderator never takes part in discussions, they can lose touch with the nature of the forum.

    As for faith here, many believe that science and faith/religion are not mutually exclusive, but mututally inclusive, and go hand in hand with each other.

    Let's keep this debate about the subject, not about God's existence per se. If people want to discuss God as God relates to this subject, that's just fine.

  5. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    I don't see science pointing at god. I see science helping to disprove outdated concepts like religions.

    Here we are, the new millenium...and we are still quaking in fear of a myth, created thousands of years ago, by a MAN.

    Yes, the Bible was written by one or more of us, flawed, fallible, mistake prone, humans.

    If god truly wrote the bible...wouldn't one of the publishing companies that produce bibles have at least met with god's esting publicist?


    LOL!

    You have quite a sense of humor :D

    It's interesting that we can both see the same set of data and draw totally different conclusions about said data. I see this as pointing to a creator, you see it as something else entirely. Now no one said anything about the bible, but perhaps if you'd like to discuss that, you should make a new thread :)

    Who's quaking in fear in this thread? God is great and the bible says that the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom, but God also loves and cares for his creations. However, I digress, this isn't the current topic at hand...
  6. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    Well, to quote my (not Christian) Chemistry teacher, "The more you study Chemistry, you realize you have to study physics, and the more you realize there HAS to be a God."

    I'm not saying whether I agree with this or not, but I'm just saying that there ARE scientists out there who link science to God.
  7. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    well thats the thing isnt it, those who dont believe in god use science to validate their belief, and those who do believe in god, use it to validate their own belief. Than there is a third group who also believes in god, but refuses to ackowledge science if it contradicts there preconcieved notion of god. As an agnostic, I know i'll never if there is or isnt a god that i can understand so i dont look for it to prove or disprove a creator.


    back on topic, this theory goes along very much with my belief that all is one. I am intrigued by how much it coincides with the teachings of all schools of Buddhism(which by the way is not really about a god, but more about a universal oneness). I'm not sure if i agree with it or not, but it does make alot of sense to me.

    I wonder what new studies on the effects of LSD would bring to light regarding this matter. Unfortuantly the drug prohibition prevents this but that is another topic. Personally I experienced something similar to the people mentioned in the article while on the drug. I had the feeling that i was a Australopithecus Afarensis(or something similar too) and i felt that my thought process was similar to one at the time. I naturally attributed this to the temporary psychological effects of the drug on me, combined with my interest in primate evolution.. I still think so, but after reading this story, the possiblity exists that it wasnt just that and could have been me connecting with the universal oneness.
    I do think we need to have controlled experiments on this subject. Even the states in some Buddhist meditative trances have been compared to the experiences of LSD and of those in the article.

    KW-If the above is not allowed on the Senate Floor due to the overt drug references, please remove, but I do think it is relevant to the topic.
  8. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    No, no problem at all :).
  9. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Cool, I just wasnt sure.
  10. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I've heard about this before. It's very interesting. My personal view of the universe (which is therefore the actual universe, according to this theory) is that the Big Bang happened, and from then on, every single little change that could possibly be one way or another did both, forming a new universe each time.

    And here's another cool idea... time may not exist at all, since it's relative. The universe may be, to draw an analogy, a collection of film slides that your 'essence' moves through... but an infinite number of other yous are in every other universe and... and...

    And I think I'm offtopic. Maybe. It's late, I can't tell. :D
  11. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Good post, Sleazo. I once saw a movie called "Altered States", which fits the experience you described. Its like you are feeling what it was to be at one with everything.

    I too have shared this experience. It definitely cannot be described to someone. They have to go through it. I'm not saying "Run out and get wasted"., so don't take what I'm typing to heart, :D
  12. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I've heard the same things about people on LSD. Though I've never had the experience myself, I've read studies about people who could do incredibly complex math problems while under its influence. It's a little sad that they can't study it more, as I've heard of some very positive effects coming from it.
  13. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    The positive effects are outweighed by the negatives, I'm afraid. Much like the dark side...this stuff is very hard on your body.

  14. ceinwyn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2002
    For those who've asked for links:

    The main page comes from www.sumeria.net/physics

    Lots of physics related stuff down there .. towards the bottom of the links is the Universe is a Hologram link which is just exactly what I've copied down for you.

    BTW, in my opinion this does nothing to disprove God if you already believe in Him. Same thing I say about evolution ... why get mad? Why couldn't God have done it that way? Who are we to say God did something one way or another?
  15. jedimaster5615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 2
    Someone (I can't remember if it was Hawking or Einstein - I'm pretty sure it was Einstein, but I'm not 100% sure) did an experimen to show that information travels faster than the speed of light. I can't remember the details of the experiment - I'll look in my archives for them, but I don't know if I can find the paper.
  16. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Devilanse- you are def right the positive effects are generally outweighed by the negative effects. While thinking about this, another way the author of the article could have described this is through fractal patterns, which like a hologram every part of it can be analyzed and shown to look like the whole. Fractal patterns are most commonly know to be in lighning, but there are many other places in which they are found such as leaves, or animla cells. I dont really know too much about Fractal pattersns, I saw a program about it a long time ago on TLC. If anyone can post any links or share any informantion based on fractal patterns relating to this subject it would be great.
  17. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Arguably the most well-informed individual on the planet, a fellow who'd take strolls across the top of water, suggested that everything was created out of "light."


    I'm not really taking a stance on this whole hologram theory, need to let it settle, but I thought I'd interject that since no one else seems to have.
  18. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    According to Bohm, the apparent faster-than-light connection between subatomic particles is really telling us that there is a deeper level of reality we are not privy to, a more complex dimension beyond our own that is analogous to the aquarium.

    The whole aquarium analogy just emphasizes the importance of perception in reality. I don't think this proves no objective reality exists - I think it proves there is no way we can perceive any objective reality, if one does exist. So for us, it might as well not exist, but that doesn't mean it doesn't. Would you like some more double negatives, or will that do? :D

    At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past.

    Doesn't this also mean what we do in the present may be altering the past just as it presumably chooses the course of the future? We were discussing this in another thread a while back.

    So, weird things are possible in the Universe, however improbable, but this holo-universe sounds like a philosophy theory only.

    Well, but so does chaos theory. All the mathematical theories I've heard sound more philosophical than scientific. But who can say where science leaves off and philosophy begins? The "bias" mentioned in the article - to break things down and study their parts - is also a philosophy.

    Also, I don't think it was saying we've been "put into a hologram" - it's saying what we call reality is really a hologram. To my layman thinking, that's no weirder than the apparent fact that matter is really just energy, so basically my chair is made out of the same stuff as the glow around a candle flame. Feel free to let me know if you think I'm ill-informed - I'm definitely not a physicist, so I'm just doing the best I can here. :)

    I don't see this theory as discounting a deity (can't prove a negative, anyway), but I don't see how it supports one. It supports something like the Force - a universal energy that binds everything together - a little better, IMO. Then again, there are people who believe God is very much like the Force as portrayed in the SW films.

    So, again, we're back to perception. It all depends what you think God is, or what you think there is to reality if you don't believe in any deities, etc.
  19. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    "Arguably the most well-informed individual on the planet, a fellow who'd take strolls across the top of water, suggested that everything was created out of "light." "


    Are you reffering to Dionysus or Mithras?
  20. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Or perhaps Christ, Krishna or Buddha.
  21. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    I have never used LSD or any other hallucinogenic (I trip on Sudafed, my body is so oversensitive, so I don't mess with stuff I'm not in need of), but I have had some very weird experiences. The weirdest one is that I experienced my grandmother's death firsthand. I didn't know she was dying at the time, but I felt everything except the physical sensations, and I have not been able to shake the idea that what I experienced is what the process of dying feels like.
  22. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Broaden your reading horizons and you'll know exactly to whom was being referred. ;)
  23. Moriarte Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    Though I haven't read through all of the posts I did read the first (long but fun) one, which of course is important in responding nes pa?
    I, honestly, immediately thought to God, a God(s), when the idea of everything being interconnected was presented. He on High, being of a higher consciousness is able to navigate these "frequencies" better than us humans i.e. creating the universe, planets...human beings, who for now use these "frequencies to create a reality of sorts. In this way, we are still connected to God, a God(s) or whichever, and I believe points to a higher power...or can at least. Especially the part of the past, present and future already prescribed...I think, and that we could just pluck out anything we would like. Of course, we can also make what we want coneceivably, but WOW, very interesting stuff. I also though of the Force as well. Putting these two together, it is like the Jedi recognize are ability to do whatever we please i.e. through telepathy, clairvoyance etc. But in their universe, their bodies developed organisms that helped to bridge the gap from their slef imposed physical limitations to their seemingly limitless potential. However, though midi's help them to connect, would it not hinder somewhat since it too is organic? And since this is so, this would explain why even the Jedi, or anyone with high midi's, cannot realized their own imnipotence. But it's a start, right? By no means am I saying midi's are the Force, they are not.

    *ARGH*, I just applied a incredibly new theory (to me) and applied it to a fictional universe and it's explanational of the supernatural...*ouch*.

    Fun, though. Sorry if I went off a little, but fun.

    Ciou-See the Sig
  24. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Off topic response to Brooks.

    In terms of the bible i dont need to broiaden my reading horizons, ive read most of it. Though I must say i prefer the Bhagavata or the Oddesey as far as mythological books go.

    Oh and dont wink at me. Thanks
  25. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    I wasn't talking about mythology, I was referring to the words of Christ. ;)

    You seem to confuse them with the pagan myths of the virtually unknown Mithras or the bachanolic Dionysus [feigned innocense].
    [face_mischief]


    To get back on topic, if you care to check out John 1:1 (and numerous other references) scripture analogizes God and Christ with light, and more pertinent to this discussion, especially in verse passages interconnected with the creation of the universe.

    To further this, there are scientist's who've tentively posited that the Big Bang involved a white hole.

    Another anecdotal mention, would be the pantheistic concepts of "enlightenment" for those indidivuals apparently most successfully aspiring towards the Creator in their meditations, and/or to an alleged closer understanding of the workings of paradigms of actual reality.

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