San Fran, CA New website for the SFFF - Please help!

Matt, Ming, et al ...

Having taken a look at the existing mission statement, I think there's room to improve.

First, while we know there have been rough times, the mission statement should NOT focus on how SFFF is going to handle grievances or differences of opinion. Let's put that in a separate part of the guidelines or bylaws.

A mission statement should be short. It should be active tense. It should be achieveable (or at least something that isn't going to set off people's BS meters). Above all, it is not a sales pitch. Back in the early 90's, the managers at my company got together for a two-day retreat and banged out a mission statement that was about as graceful as a Gammorean performing Swan Lake.

"The San Francisco Fan Force exists as a place where Star Wars fans based in the Greater San Francisco Bay Area can share their love and enthusiasm for the Star Wars universe." Bam, that's your mission. Everything else - how the officers are chosen, what their roles are, and how disputes/grievances are handled ... that goes in the bylaws.

In fact, the section on DISPUTES should be damn near the last thing in the bylaws. Yes, we know people have strong opinions. Yes, we know we're gonna butt heads or cross lightsabers or go all Dark Side on people when we're having a bad day. But setting up bylaws that have a focus on that underscores that the Rogues don't truly move as one.

=====

In specific:

Drop 'dictated by the administration'; just say, "The rules of the TF.N Fan Force boards exist to ensure a positive and enjoyable experience for members and our visitors. Even in the fan community, personal opinions vary; we ask that you keep an open mind. We also ask that you keep topics and posts to a PG-13 standard out of respect to younger fans and visitors."

This sounds like a combination of legalese and some kind of awkward confession/excuse for members who might be gay or of non-traditional religious views. Can we try something like, 'Neither TF.N or the SFFF is responsible for the actions of individuals taken outside of the specific direction or instruction of SFFF officers or members at sanctioned SFFF activities.' Nobody expects us to be responsible for someone who is speeding down the freeway, or smoking pot on their own time.

There's nothing to note. "The mods and admins reserve the right to change or delete posts/threads, etc. period."

What they do on the boards is separate from what they do at meetings.

"If you have questions or concerns pertaining to what may be appropriate for the boards, please contact the SF CR or TF.N Administration, and we will do our best to answer your question."

Don't put MTFBWY at the end of every section. Please.

 

Hand to hand Dev, I'll look forward to it. I may not be a cop but I'm not untrained either. Jujitsu is the usual form of training at most police academys. Then again your size would probably make using jujitsu fully a moot point. It's usually smaller folks who usually would need to fully employ and master those techniques. However, grappling especially in wrist and arm manipulations are things I can see you specializing in. Factoring that in unfortunatley, I'd have to use overwhelming force right from the start to bring you down. Then again I don't want to break you Dev. As for scars, that's ok, I rather not see ya with your shirt off.

Anyway, I know you guys are Rogue Force, because there is only one Rogue Squadron and that's my squad. As for the long reply, I was bored and there was nothing on TV...

 

Oh yeah this was a serious discussion... We'll have to deal with our competition later Dev. Let's see now...

Bob, that stuff was actually more like rules for SFFF and only the first part was the mission statment. You also have to understand it was written when there was a higher need for security and we were at "war". Anyway, as I said myself there is total room for modifcation, improvement etc. Main thing about the rules was the it was suppose to stop the formations of an Empire.

 

I don't use the wonderful Oriental arts primarily my friend. Although, I do know how, and much more than you know. More importantly, I hope you relize, I have other means at my disposal in hand to hand. Thank you Ming, for caring enough about me not to want to break me. On the other hand, and more importantly, I don't want to see the past Leader of Rogue SQUADRON cry.

Yeah, ROGUE FORCE sounds better anyway.


EDIT: Sorry, I understand my friend, I will let you get back to your web site discussion "Move along, move along"


*poof*

 

Ming:

As I said, I know some of the reasons specific language wound up in the mission statement and the bylaws ... and there's always gonna be someone who wants to build an Empire. I think the bylaws can be written to circumvent such things, but it's important to keep the focus on Star Wars fandom and the SFFF's participation in same, so the first impression someone gets about SFFF is that we take our fandom seriously.

The second impression is that you don't screw with us.

Bob

 

OK actually I've deleted what I was gonna say because I don't want any negativity to spill into this forum although prepare to recieve a PM Bob. Dev, it's all good, and I don't want to see Luke, Wedge, Tycho, or Gavin cry either...

 

Hey Crew

Just wanted to pop in this discussion a bit since I had offered in the past to help with the website (I am a graphic designer/illustrator... yes, I make a living at it hhaha.) Anyone who's not seen my work and is somehow curious... feel free to check out my site: www.HD3D.com

Annyhow. I think most of you know at this point that I am expecting a teeny little padawan in the not too distant future... so for now, I am doing the smart thing and not taking on any more websites (other than big fat paying corporate gigs hahah) BUT... I would love to help in any way I can. I just want to be realistic about how much time I'll have and would feel awful commiting & not being able to follow through.

My strengths are in graphics and illustration (3d & 2d) I would be more than happy to work with someone who wanted to do the actual construction of the site to provide graphics (buttons, rollovers, collages, headers, logos etc.) So, whomever ends up taking this puppy on, please consider my skills at your service

And I would caution you all to be kind with your lists of "suggestions" LOL. Looking at the first few posts... that is a LOT to ask of someone who is working for free. Maybe prioritizing your requirements would could help this not turn into a pain in someones rear that never gets done?

I'm happy to chat with anyone involved on this project, either at a meeting or online, just give me a shout!

 

Yeah, I think at the next meeting, everyone bring ideas so we can narrow them down by priority. I'd like to get this moving ASAP. If we can get some of it done by the ROTS DVD event, that would be great!

 

hey all! as the resident paralegal, my strengths in addition to researching, are creating and editing legal documents. let me know if i can help in this regard. i love to write and edit. i should've been a professor or something. one day, maybe i will be. i will be.

 

I really don't think we need the inclusion of anything remotely legal sounding. In fact the les legalese the better. Otherwise people won't bother to read it anyway. We just need simple rules -- period.

On the research note, I've been testing a few free web hosts that give 5 gigs and 1 gig repsectively. They both have some strong point. But one seems to be down more often (www.worldfreeweb.com) and the other (www.tekcities.com) seems stable with 5 gigs of space, but does not have ftp access, so files are browser loaded, at max 10 at a time. I like the options that worldfreeweb offers with cpanel, ftp, emails, chat, and the option to transfer a current domain name.

Both are ad supported but do not use pop ups, just banners and links.

As far as a paid hosting service, www.powweb.com seems to be recommended by many review sites with a good price. They have upgraded their 1 gig space to 5 gigs now with 300 gigs of transfer (I seriously doubt we'd ever use that much bandwidth).

If anybody has thoughts or experience with the above services, I'd love to hear you opinions.

 

oh, i only meant that i would assist in the writing and editing part, as i do it everyday in my field (which happens to be law). so that part of my background i could contribute in the writing process if needed.

 

Ah you posted while I was editing....

Editing I think is what is most needed.

I just did a mock up of what a site would be like. There's a reason I don't do web design. It's a hassle. Even with Dreamweaver MX.

 

Harlock - you use photoshop don't you? Why not do mock-ups of design ideas in photoshop and not worry about dealing with Dreamweaver at this time? I know everyone works differently though - I just would hate to see you spending lots of time messing around with Dreamweaver right now if you don't have to I also thought Bith_lord was designing the site? I guess I'm confused.

I personally prefer to have FTP access when using tools like dreamweaver because you can make sure that the site structure stays in tact and it makes life easy when uploading a lot of files (like for photo album updates). However, I know options can be limited with free sites.

Wow, I love your work Adyn! I'm not much of a graphic designer myself, but I'm OK at taking a design done in photoshop or illustrator, slicing it up and using tables, css and javascript to make things presentable on the web. It's not spectacular but may give some of you an idea of my skills - this is the CSM adapted phys ed web site I designed and built a few years ago: http://smccd.net/accounts/csmadaptedpe/index.htm

I might be getting ahead of myself here, but if Bith_Lord designs a site and turns it over to us can we also get the working photoshop files? We may have to add or modify things like navigation buttons and graphic images of new members over time while keeping a consistent look. The layered photoshop files would be good to have so we can maintain the site ourselves.

I think a good goal at the meeting on Saturday would be to agree on a site structure and content. It's hard to move forward with page layout and navigation unless we know what pages and subsections of pages we will have. As Adyn mentioned, prioritize which sections and features are urgent if we want to have part of the site up by the time of the DVD release. And keep in mind that Bith Lord might not have time to do everything under the moon that we dream up Web sites are a lot of work.

- Kay Dee

 

Yeah, I just got Dreamwever MX 2004 which I upgraded from Ultra Dev 4, and I started playing with it and one thing led to another...

I just wanted to creat a mock static site with links and graphics to see how they load up on some of these free hosts and also to see how obtrusive the ads are. So far they are not bad except for Angelfire whose double banner ads at the top of a page really bet in the way of a banner for the site.

Using tekcities browser based upload is not bad, actually pages seemed to upload faster than when I didn it with the same site using ftp at worldfreeweb. However I still prefer ftp mainly because pages and a couple of images are one thing but if I have a hundred pics to uypload I rather press start and go have lunch. However once again, worldfreeweb was down for the better part of the night last night so I'm hoping it's only some maintenance work and not a pattern.

What's up there now is about 10 pages, static, with some flash buttons and a couple of images. So eventually I wanna see how the servers load up on dial-up. We have two hurdles, design and structure that is simple and easily maintained, and a place to park our site.

Of course, we already have a good looking website now which all we need do is transfer to a larger host and maintain regularly.

Here is what I would like, everybody take a pencil and paper and draw the index page or print up a screen cap of what they would like the site to look like, because we pretty much know what page copntents will be there but the design is something we will have to consider. For those with photoshop skill, which I don't have, if you wanna do a layout in Photoshop or Illustrator and print it up that is even better. Also we want to get an idea of wether we do indeed want to pay for hosting of our site, who will maintain it after Bith_Lord creates it, and what will need to maintained on a regular basis.

 

OK Harlock , I see you were just wanting to test out how the free sites operate which is a good idea. Keep in mind that the speed will be slower or faster depending on how well you've optimized the images for the web (might be ovestating the obvious, but in photoshop choose 'save for web' and reduce the 'quality' as much as your eye can bear). It's too bad that some services only have browser based uploading. I just hated having to hunt and peck for a few files at a time, especially when with dreamweaver you can select one page and tell it to upload all the dependent files. Or select and entire folder if you've created a whole new section like "Comic-Con 2005 photos" and it will upload everything in that folder. I'm just thinking ahead to maintaining it and the easier it is, the more likely it is to get done.

As I remember Angelfire used to give an option for having the ads be pop-up or banner. So sometimes I just preferred to switch it to pop-up so it wouldn't push the design down the page. Either way the ads suck, but that's who's paying for the freeness of the site.

On rare occasion I had problems getting some css layout elements to work properly on free sites with ads because the scripts they inserted to display the ads wasn't playing nice with the code I had. It might have been with a dropdown navigation I designed - memory is fuzzy. Anyway, that's just a heads up.

Honestly, if Bith_Lord is designing the site I'll just give him the ball to run with design wise and only ask that certain content be included on the site. Sometimes it helps if people give the designer URLs of sites they like the look and feel of, but as a designer I often felt restricted if they said "I want the navigation here, a banner here" - etc. I'm all over using a pencil and paper to draw out potential site map structures though And maybe sketching a few 'wire frame' (basically boxes and lines to demonstrate placement) ideas for sub sections like the members page, events - etc.

So Matt, have you chatted with Bith Lord recently to see if he's still up to the task? You might suggest that he takes a look at the ideas we have floating around so far in this thread. That way if there are ideas we've mentioned that he says he can't do or doesn't have time for we won't spend time going down that path any further during the meeting on Saturday. Just an idea (like, maybe he'll say "I'm not going to be able to do a flash intro" or "I can do a few roll overs for the main navigation, but not a lot of animated graphics."

- Kay Dee

 

Yeah, I would not want to force my web designs on the group. The mock one I made up works and everthing but it's...well a quickly hashed out site. And looks it. Used Flash buttons and everthing seems to load fast but I haven't tried the speed on dial up yet.

 

Nah, I didn't take it that you were forcing any design on the group. If you have specific layouts you really want then you guys should let Bith Lord know if he's gonna go forward with the site. Speaking for myself, I'd just rather kick back and let him come up with a cool design since it's probably what will make it fun for him and easy on me. LOL!

- Kay Dee

 

Answered your PM, Ming.

If your concerns were because you had misunderstood or misread something I had written, could you please acknowledge that either in PM or in the thread?

"... I don't want any negativity to spill into this forum although prepare to receive a PM Bob," suggests that I said something wrong, and I don't want the impression of 'Ming vs. Bob' lurking about.

 

I had a fever for the better part of the week so I've been out of it...

Bob, the way you worded certain things were... for the lack of a better term... total crap. From what I interpreted from you saying "The second impression is that you don't screw with us" is that I was "screwing" with the club as a result of what I wrote a couple YEARS ago prior. As to say something I wrote in all seriousness at the time was something to screw the club over with. At this point, it was "Bob vs Ming" because it personally singles me out by you and I DID NOT want to bring this into the open forum because there is no need for it here.

I wasn't sure if adding the " " face was denoting sarcasm or smugness but either way I did not like how it sounded overall. Following the exchange of top "Rogue-ness" between Devin and myself (which was ridiculous in a fun/awkward kinda way), I was not in the mood or wanted to see another exchange on the boards along those lines. However, it's all out here now ain't it? Geez...

 

Ming:

It sounds like you didn't even bother to read either my post or my reply via PM.

Clearly, you are reading something into my words which is not there, taking personal affront when there is none. Even now, you seem to insist that I was implying something that isn't there.

The bylaws that were drafted when SFFF was at 'war' are history. That's all gone and done with, dead and buried. It's time to move forward, and jettison the antagonistic language that focuses on disputes, beat-downs, and the like, and emphasizes our love of Star Wars. We want people to read the bylaws and come away with a positive feeling, we want them to see other SW fans who take their fandom seriously.

With me so far? That's exactly what I said before.

The SECOND thing is that 'you' (potential readers of the bylaws who have ideas about taking over SFFF or making SFFF just another politics-laden fan club) don't mess with us, a tongue-in-cheek reference to the old language that sounds like a gang defending its turf.

That statement was NEVER 'you' as in 'Ming S. Pan' personally. I mean, come on, why would I be picking on you? I barely have the time to make meetings, let alone run anything.

Yet, you're right back here trying to make it into a slam against the battles you fought and won, the hard times you helped shepherd SFFF through. That I'm insisting on some kind of confrontation, when all I said is, 'you clearly misunderstood what you had read/what I had written' and that you could reply via PM. What I was finding odd was that you put out this, 'I don't want to be negative, but you're getting a PM, Bob,' and then clammed up for several days.

In fact, in my replies via PM, I specifically stated that my comments were not directed at you personally, but you apparently still prefer to think of it as 'total crap,' and that I'm the bad guy for making you say it in public.

So let me again apologize for any misunderstanding that may have arisen from my comments. They were not intended to insult or otherwise imply that you have been messing anyone over.

But that about caps the amount of fannish politics I can handle, and that's my cue to leave. I'm done. I'm gone.

 

Okay. That's enough of that. Those bylaws are gonna be gone anyway. So any debate, argument, or disagreements about those old rules is moot.

We are focused on the future and the look and content of a new site -- period. So let's keep focused here.

 

I actually didn't re-read what I said in the by laws, mission statement, etc. I just copied and pasted from what I had saved from a couple years ago. In fact that long thing critizing it bored me to tears so I didn't read that either. I also never said we should sick with them at all. All I mention was that we did have them at some point and thus I posted them. They totally should be changed to better suit what the club is right now as oppose to what we use to have or just have new ones completely.

However, I did read your PM Bob and I didn't write back because I had a FEVER and needed bed rest so excuse me for not PMing back. Futhermore I may sound like someone bent on defense, strategy, and even on the verge of open violence half the time but you know what? I totally am! I admit it freely and it's what I do and what I'm good at. More over it's who I am. You want someone to take a watch and see policy, twidling their thumbs, while things falls apart then get someone else to coordinate the defense of SFFF. Folks who go pretty far back can recall what happened when a club had "no rules" but that policy was further based on a lie to begin with. We were all decieved by a lie and I swore it would never happen again on we got SFFF up. You want to say I'm "blah blah blah whatever" about policy then go ahead, it's cool. Say I'm screwing with the club... then we're gonna have words. That's what I'm saying.

My policy is simply: Sometimes someone just has to be the bad @ss because if your the boy scout all the time then the folks who'd do whatever they want will walk all over you because they know your posturing is empty.

I should have figured that what you said was a jest Bob but I don't get your statement still about me "...screwing with us" so I was/am still unsure. I just wanted clarification on that statement, that's all.

Lastly, I think your a overall nice good natured guy Bob but something about your writing makes me zone off or I totally don't understand what you mean really for some reason. I, however, am no longer the moody and frustrated person I was, but I am more exacting and eager to take things head on thus I'm trying to figure out that the hell was being said to me.

Sorry about the mess guys, forget I said anything about this topic. Maybe I'm fighting ghosts but maybe I have my reasons too.

 

Back to the website...

After the meeting, heather suggested a service that would come in handy for us no matter what sever we end up with. It is a service called imageevent.com where photos can be uploaded into albums with pictures sized at whatever we would want them. I would prefer the maximum to be 800x600, it fits easily within a browser window.

It's $25 a year, but it is ad free, and can be updated quickly by anybody who had the user name or password. The alloted space is approximately 1.5 gigs. We could easily link to this site for many of our events from within our site. The only problem is that although the look of imageevent.com is customizable, it would not be as customizable as if it were on our own site.

Anybody else with experience or thought on this service please chime in.

 

But you're perfectly willing to rip a hole in me over something YOU DIDN'T READ? Gee, thanks a lot.

Then don't make a habit of calling people out. Furthermore, I point out (yet again) that I asked for a reply in private or public, making clear that this was likely a misunderstanding. You took it public, and despite reading my PM, seem convinced that I was making some kind of slam against you.

Obviously, nothing I can say will change your mind. Hence, my setting a course for the door.

Where is this enemy? Who are they? Life is short, I ain't got the time to freak over these mysterious people lurking in the shadows waiting to take over a small, local Star Wars fan club.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU, Ming. Holy smokes! We want the FIRST message people get from our website/bylaws/whatever to be 'we're serious about our fandom, we love Star Wars' ... and the SECOND message that OTHER PEOPLE, not Ming S. Pan, (said tongue in cheek) to be 'don't mess with us.'

It doesn't get shorter or simpler than that.

Why you continue to perceive that as a personal insult is beyond me. In no way has my statement EVER translated to a slam against you. I've apologized multiple times, I've explained it multiple times, but you want to be the guardian BMJ - fine, go ahead.

See above. IT ISN'T ABOUT YOU, Ming. And if you can't understand my writing, then say so. Don't frelling come after me with long knives seeking to avenge an insult that never took place.

But, like I said earlier, I'm outta here. You deserved a response, but if you're going to predicate the club on needing to defend it against all comers, it's the wrong club for me.

Apologies to Matt, Robert, and the others for further derailing the thread.

 

"And if you can't understand my writing, then say so. Don't frelling come after me with long knives seeking to avenge an insult that never took place."

First I did say I didn't understand your writing. Didn't I? Repeatedly in fact...

Ummm... "long knives seeking to avenge"? Now you try my patience... This is not even a situation close enough for me to break out any weapon of any kind. If there was no insult then there's nothing to "avenge".

How troublesome, I'm done as well.