Newbie Qualms

All right guys, this is has gotten atrocious. I am quite angered and disappointed at how you experienced veterans have been treating the newbies on this board recently.

It seems that every time a new board member creates a thread an experienced board member degrades him and tells him to read the FAQ. Then, as if the newbie didn't hear the response the first time, another five jump in with their own slanders and jabs. Jedi TAC I am going to point an unwavering finger at you here and now.

Does the thought ever occur to you that you are chasing away our future 'Dualities'? That you are ruining the dreams of young filmmakers? There are a few times where newbies overstep their bounds in claiming they will create 'the best fan film ever'. However, while these types of posts are becoming fewer, the number of newbie flames is rising.

I do not see how destroying a young film makers' dream is so much better than maliciously shredding some one's completed fan film.

Now, you can either respond with your typical defensive hatred against my outlandish statements or you can let your anger subside and truly reflect on your actions.

Either way, I will be waiting right here.

 

Hmmmmmm......I sense much locking of this thread, I do.

As a veteran(kinda, not around too much nor post much), I feel disturbed that you group all veterans/experienced members together. I find that most people, both "veterans" and new members, when asked a "newbie" question, will usually point the person in the right direction and leave them be. While there are cases in which a person becomes engulfed in flames, often times it is brought upon themselves.(Such as recent warez postings...)

There is usually loads of answers and information on these aforementioned "newbie questions", so usually more than a simple link or place where the question is answered is unnecessary.

May peace be with you all....as well as the fire department.

 

Ummm, I'm wondering why there is always someone on this board that feels the need to start a fight, just so he can get attention.

 

The only time I get "flame"-boyant is either someone who sucks claiming to be the next coming (i.e. "best fanfilm ever"), or when a newbie asked a totally stupid question that deserves only that sort of answer (i.e. "where can I download pre-made CGI footage that I can composite into my movie").

If you look at these flame-filled posts, you'll find that the individual in question probably falls into one of those two categories.. I haven't really seen anyone here get lambasted that didn't deserve it.

And um.. aren't YOU a newbie?

 

Sorry Jedi 2016 but I have directed 4 films inlcuding TESBY and Doom Raiders and I DON'T KNOW "where can I download pre-made CGI footage that I can composite into my movie"

Does that mean you are going to flame me too?

Perhaps Whispering Death does have a point.

I have also found Mr TAC to be rude, and condensnding (although not to me).

Very frequently I have NOT posted replies, simply because of his comments. Sure the guy has KNOWLEDGE and experience, but hey isn't this supposed to be fun?

I'll probably be shouted at now...

 

Darth Virru - No, not every experienced member is a flamer, many have great patience with the blatant stupidity apparent in some newbie posts. Many people such as Pixel Magic reply constantly in a helpful tone without the intent of degradation.

Jedi2016 - I became a part of this fan films community four months ago. I have much respect for those of you who have been here for years, do not get me wrong on that. But I plead with you well-endowed members to have patience with these newbie posts, not because they are right to say they have 'the best fan film ever' but because these people do not know, nor mean, what they type. They are just full of enthusiasm for their new projects, which is then taken and smashed to pieces by the intellectual weight of the veteran board members.

Pixel Magic - It has taken me weeks to post this. I have been seriously in fear of the responses I would be subjecting myself to, such as the gut wrenched you posted. I cannot imagine a person that can take pleasure out of being publicly degraded and ridiculed.

I just ask for everyone in the board to open your eyes. It has gotten so bad that steveskywalker tried to create a thread where the newbies could talk without the constant attacks of the veteran board members. And what happened to that feeble attempt to consolidate losses? It was maliciously picked through to find every single word, which could be taken as offensive and bashed so badly that the moderators had to lock the topic.

How can you not see that there is something wrong with this situation?

 

Lordy, lordy.

Okay, look. I'm as fed up as anyone with the attitude that many people wear like badges around here. The forum abounds with self-appointed newbie police, seeking to throw around the weight of their supposed experience. It's a pain, it's something that I find far more annoying than the latest, "How do I make lightsabers?" thread, and in many cases I find it downright disgraceful -- especially when the recipients of the attitude are just kids, often barely into their teens.

What I can't understand is this: at what point to people expect newbies to learn? People need to realize that the source of their exasperation is not an individual, posting repeatedly month after month and year after year, never learning what's going on (well, not all the time, anyway). They are different people, coming into the forum for the first time, and not knowing what the etiquette is -- only to be jumped on like some enemy that's been battled with many times in the past.

"Ah, there you are again, Ignorance Man. This time, the bitterness of my posts will surely vanquish you -- you'll not return this time!"

The whole thing is silly. Give the new guys a break -- and give the moderators time to do our job. We'll refer them to the right place if you give us the opportunity. Chances are we'll do it more politely, too.

There's a saying that I'm fond of: "The only stupid question is the one that goes unanswered." Now, I'll grant you that the situation is best all around if people find the answers for themselves -- that's been mine and Mark's strategy all along. We never came on these boards asking for advice. Rather, we sought the answers ourselves, most often through trial and error. It's just the way we like to do things. However, that doesn't mean I have no respect for those who don't wish to re-invent the wheel (thus the tutorials that are available at crewoftwo.com). Does that mean I'm willing to spoon feed people? No. I honestly don't have the time. But I am willing to politely point them in the right direction -- and if I see that they're willing to meet me half way, I'll offer them more help.

So, a plea -- not to the newbies (and I have to say, I loathe that term), but to the supposedly experienced members of the board: Be helpful where you can, ignore them where you can't (or won't). Don't be condescending, don't be accusatory. You'll find things'll get a lot more productive and a lot more pleasant.

All that said -- picking fights doesn't help much either. If you have a specific problem, handle it through PM's, ignore the poster, talk to the mods... but let's not make any "calling out" posts on the board. If the desire is to prevent negativism, there must be a better way than picking a fight.

 

That was perfectly said Mr. Macomber.

 

*Sniff sniff* EWWWWWWW!!! What's that smell!?





(Sorry, I couldn't resist. The dark side is too strong!!)

EDIT: Awww, suuuuuure. Now that you edited it, the smell has diminished...hmmmmmmm....Muffins, I could use a good muffin right now. Tea and Muffins...what an evil combination! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hmmmm, time to go to bed.

 

Mr Rive, I take my hat off to you.

Having directed for the past 8 years, I am now moving into other aspecrs of filmmaking where I have less expereience(editing, visual FX etc).

I will certainly need the advice from my fellow TFN colleagues. Indeed some, if not many of my probelms will appear to be simple and "Newbie", but if you guys simply and politlely point me in the right direction then everybody wins!

Cheers Rive, you rock!

 

I've got to mention, its not all veterans. I've seen numerous altercations in which one newbie has berated and harrassed another newbie.

We all need to calm down.

-Kol.

 

Can't we all just...(dramatic pause)get along? Hah hah hah. I'm sorry it's one in the morning so that was really funny for me...ok I'm going to go away now before i get yelled at.

 

I'm not going to join in on the debate, but I think TAC is going to be pretty mature here and just ignore some of the false statements made towards him.

Actually, for those saying "TAC, where is YOUR fanfilm... YOUR 3d tests", well, for those people, I have news for you, the guy had been working his ass off on something that isn't for him at all, but for the entire board... for everyone who is interested in fanfilm.

Also, the guy doesn't bash... alot of newbies who now consider themselves veterans SAY he does... they are quick to think they are smart (because they have been here several months) and say "Ho-hum... wait till TAC sees this one... UNLEASH THE TAC". Well... if you make the guy into some one who bashes people, how can you be suprised, or angry when that's how you interpret what he does?

For the most part, he does bash occassionally, but in the best way possible. Follow me on this one. He does give them sarcastic remarks... and maybe take a few jabs at them... but 9 times out of 10 he posts a stack of links at the bottom of the post... seriously, I wonder how many megabytes that guy's favorites folder contains.

I just said that because I don't think it's going to be said at all, and it needs to be, even though I'm probably not the best one to be saying it.

Cya
Mike

 

Tac's toned down alot since i first came to the boards, i think we should lay off the dude for a while. i admit, sometimes it does get very anoying when questions explained in the FAQ keep being bought up on a dayly basis but i'd bet my last buck that even the vet's were like that early on, we should stop ranting about it, and answer they're questions, not with cold cutting remarks, but by answering them, calmly, not making them feel unwelcome.


P.S. Wix, bought Traitor, sounds cool, cant wait to get to it...

 

You two are right, Lord Rive and Wixmmm.
I also know a saying that I'm fond of: "There are no stupid questions only stupid anwers."

 

Sorry Jedi 2016 but I have directed 4 films inlcuding TESBY and Doom Raiders and I DON'T KNOW "where can I download pre-made CGI footage that I can composite into my movie"

You misunderstood me.. and no, I have no intentions of flaming you.. in fact, I have a great deal of respect for you for those two films you mentioned.. highlights of the fanfilm community, to be sure.

My point was that it was a stupid question when it was asked.. as a long-time filmmaker you should know that there IS no place to download "pre-made" CGI for fanfilms, and 99.99% chance there never will be. I for one will NEVER post "stock" footage of mine online that anyone could just download and use and I might never know about it.

But anyway, that's not the point. The point was the question itself.. if the user had thought about it for three seconds before posting it, he would have realized that he was asking a stupid question.

Or you could just go by the old adage "There are no stupid questions.. only stupid people." Unfortunately, we do see quite a few folks like this around here. I visit quite a few boards around the 'net in regards to fanfilms, props, CG, etc.. and this place is by far the worst when it comes to the IQ level of some of the newbies. This is actually the only Forum anywhere online where I'll actually talk down to someone.. I never have reason to do that at any of the other boards I visit.

 

I wasn't going to add to this, but... I just woke up, and here I am.

First off, WhisperingDeath while I understand you're frustrations, I hate threads like this. It points to many fingers in directions that in most cases they need not be pointed. Though perhaps, indeed, it was time to hopefully address these issues for the last time.

I've been into film-making for the past 11 years. I'd have considered myself a director for at least 9 of the 11 (the other three I was so new to it I had no clue what was going on). The summer after 10th grade (almost 5 years ago) I, through some magical working of the powers that be, was able to be 2nd A.D. (Assistant Director for anyone who may not know) on a film in Charleston, SC. Since then, my experience and knowledge of film making surged.

Yeah, Yeah, great... so here's some guy talking about his experience. But what made the experiences I've had thus far so pleasurable and memorable, is that not once, ever was I looked down on, berated, or treated with any other negative action because I didn't know what I was doing or had a question. People were always willing to help, even the people I was in charge of as stated by my position.

I've been a part of the boards here for a little over a year now, and have seen many things that I would personally consider inconsiderate, rude, and in some cases, deliberate acts of hatred. I think these cases are best suited for the mod's to handle. While we're all perfectly capable of responding, many of the forum members will attack with as vicious a nature as the controversial poster.

What I'm getting at, is that new members and old alike, we all have something to learn. New members may or may not be more experienced that "veteran" members of the board. So, ideally, we could all just forget our board "status" and learn from one another. When the board is at its best, this is indeed the case, and is most acceptable.

Also, there are many opinions on the film, Duality, while my personal opinions lead me to say that I didn?t really like the film, I respect the film-makers hard work and efforts. Just because you don?t like a film doesn?t mean it was easy or cheap to make. Just as much effort goes into these films as some big budget productions. To the amateur film-makers on the board, I?d ask you to seriously try and not be driven away by films with more resources than you. I know it is difficult, but please, we all have to start somewhere, don?t let yourself think you can?t do it just because you can?t reach the visual quality of another film.

Lastly (on a personal note), and I've said this before, I don't appreciate how many people choose JediTAC to attack when these things come up. Granted, TAC has made some comments that have been upsetting to some people, but if you will, go back and read some of them. A lot of them have come after people have explained numerous times how to complete something in another thread or so on. Not excusable, perhaps, but certainly recognizable as an understandable frustration. Then, TAC made his apology, which I thought was a very honorable and respectable motion on his part. I would personally consider TAC a friend on the boards... so basically, if we're going to address an issue, please people, let's address the issue and not a single person. Thanks.

Peace

~DK~

 

I don't know, maybe the flames have gone up, but so have amount of newbies that don't ask questions, they simply state some out of this world premise, like I'm going to make the greatest two hour epic fan film ever. It reeks of arrogance, and isn't laced a bit with "desire to learn." Then, many times, you will probe them and it seems more like they not here to work, there here to look for someone to do their work for them. Most don't have even a fully realized script, no storyboards, and no knowledge of CGI, yet they trawl around looking for some CGI artist to make something for them.

I used to love to come to the fanfilm board, because I would always see a thread that would help me learn. I rarely spoke in those days. But some guys come here, and their first post is some braggart statement. It gets frustrating. Anytime someone has asked a legitiment question, even about something that is in the FAQ that maybe they are having trouble with, I have NEVER seen that person get flamed.

So, if you don't want to get flamed, don't prounonce that the world is flat and expect no one to chastise you.

 

First off I would like to make a public apology to Jedi TAC. I was quite angry late last night when I posted and I unnecessarily attacked him without provocation. It is my fault that I immediately associate flaming newbies with Jedi TAC. Without the experienced, knowledgeable key players in this board like Jedi TAC we would be nothing but a wasteland.

That said, I will field some other comments
1) Rikalonius - We all get fed up with some of these newbie comments at one point or another but lashing out will do us no good. Like Lord Rive said it is not one completely ignorant guy that annoys us, they are different people. So putting the flame on them does not stop the next newbie and the next newbie from posting.

What I am trying to say is that we all make stupid comments from time to time. Whether it is the next newbie claiming to have the best film ever or Whispering Death associating all newbie bashes with Jedi TAC. I am just calling for more patience and less flaming and nit picking of posts.

I also hope that Max Veers' new sticky post will help the new posters find what they are looking for before they post.

 

Well, I suppose I owe a public apology as well. Whispering Death is right. He PMed me and told me how hurtful my comment was to him. I failed to point out that I was only half joking, and I didn't really mean it. I will admit, WhispeeringDeath, at first I did think you were doing it for attention. But after looking back and realizing that the things you said actually did have substance, I re-examined the situation, and I agree now that there is a true problem in this area. And while I don't flame newbies, I sometimes completely IGNORE there questions anyway. But that isn't the right why to do it either. Even if they ask a question I know the answer to, I just think to myself "oh brother..." and just go about my busniess. I will from this day on not do that anymore. I truly want to help the people out there. As Dave pointed out earlier, I AM NOT GOING TO SPOON FEED YOU. However, I will do my best to help you find the answer you are looking for. So to anyone out there I have offended on these boards, I am truly sorry and I apologize. I can't remember his screen name, but to the board member who was complaining about the warez and I told him to "put a sock in it" I deeply apologize for that as well. Sometimes I say things that don't seem harsh to me until AFTER I post it. So to all those members out there, I am sorry if I have ever hurt your feelings. This is a community, it's time we all started acting like it.

 

C'mon guys, this is a web-board. We don't always communicate as well when typing as we do when we're standing right in front of someone. Besides, if someone says something slightly negative to you to your face do you explode like this?

No.

So chill out. It's no big deal. It's all just words. If your wrong, admit it. If someone pisses you off refrain from acting like someone just said that they wanted to kill you and calmly tell them you didn't dig the last comment. And if someone points out that you're being a jerk they're doing it so that maybe you'll realize it and stop.

 

I've always thought you post questions on a forum when either 1) you couldn't find it by yourself or 2) to save the time of finding it for yourself by people who already know the answer to your question, and you can be sure
that's why I"m disturbed by flamed newbie posts as well. BUt everything has already been said in this thread. No spoon feeding, can help though, yada yada, it's all good, I think everybody has agreed.

I'd like to highlight though that Whispering Death is cool for making this post. I also considered something similar, but I"d like to save the drama for your mama. PixelMagic retracted his comment, that's good, but most should know posts like these aren't really made for "board popularirty"... as if that matters?

 

"Without the experienced, knowledgeable key players in this board like Jedi TAC we would be nothing but a wasteland."


LOL

 

WhisperingDeath, I hope you realize that the "newbie rush" CAME IN MAY.

Just something to ponder.

Cya
Mike

 

Odd... that's when he registered (Lots mutters from across from the room).



(I'm very sorry, I couldn't resist.)

~DK~