Oceania Nguyen Tuong Van - Drug Smuggler

they just don't get it, and end up looking stupid.

Kind of like the people responsable for getting Arrested Development cancelled.

 

you can tell we're both the most immature people around here.

It all comes back to shenanigans!

 

Well, yes, I think that's one thing we can all agree on.

 

As repellant as I found his crime, I couldn't help but be overcome when I heard that Van had been hung. The enormity of it really hit home, that he had been killed.

As much as I abhorr drug trafficking of any sort, and as much as I applaud strong penalties and enforcement of the same, I think a line must be drawn on how best to deter people from the crime.

A QC in melbourne spoke yesterday and managed to wrap up my view on the whole saga quite elequontly. Whatever we may think of the crime, we cannot help but condemn the punishment, which whilst beholden to the name of Law, can never lay claim to the name of justice.

I'm yet to hear or read a compelling arguement for legalised murder by a state, and I doubt I ever will. Justice is about rising above evil, and showing the mercy that a civilised society can grant to even the most horrendously evil rogues. Justice is never gained by induldging in that same evil ourselves, by murder.

How can we claim to be "better" than a criminal if we induldge in the self-same acts?

 

As I said earlier, "Ah, cultural hegemony."

I shall certainly remind you of this next time you lament Americans sticking their noses in unwanted somewhere, POT.

E_S

 

POT, you realise locking someone up in a room and not letting them out is illeagal right? But they do it in prisons.
No different than how the justice system bends the 'law' to allow for capital punishment...or as you call it 'legalised murder'.

 

What other crimes would you make punishable by death in Australia, SoE?
Aside from drug trafficing, I mean.

"Kind of like the people responsable for getting Arrested Development cancelled."

And the 3rd series of Arrested Development has been atrocious so far, it deserved to get axed.

 

State: if you choose to perform this act, the consequence is death.
Does the criminal provide the same choice to their victims?
Then it is not the self-same act.

Or are you limiting yourself to the pure act of taking life?
In which case we should all be moral vegetarians wearing hemp clothing and using alternative energy sources.

 

That's exactly right. When you travel to a foreign country you need to respect their laws and on a flier on the airline into Singapore, it did say "Drug smuggling is punishable by death." Schepell Corby was a different story because the girl didn't do it. But never-the-less, this should remind people that if you take up drug smuggling, this is what will happen to you.

 

What other crimes would you make punishable by death in Australia, SoE?

Drug dealing. Drug smuggling. Any sexual assualt/abuse. Murder (although, in some cases I think murder is completely justified).

 

What sort of cases?

 

You'll note that nowhere in my post did I demand Singapore change its ways, only that I abhorr capital punishment, and believe that there are sound grounds for judging capital punishment incompatable with not only Justice but the maintaining of a civilised society.

We asked Singapore to reconsider, they didn't, as is there right. The distinction I would note is that usually when the yanks draw fire from this humble poster for their actions, it is not because they have "asked" a soverign nation to reconsider an action, but when they have "told" a nation to change its action, or worse, gone on ahead and and changed it all by themselves.

I was not aware that proclaiming one's own standpoint and the rationale behind it amounted to "cultural hegemony". But then again, as you so often point out, you're the one with the certificate III in international relations, so perhaps you could explain my mistake.

 

What sort of cases?

Here's a random example.
A very young girl is raped brutaly then murdered. The dad sees the guy and beats him to death.
In my eyes, completely fair and justified. But I guess, the laws the law. But I'd never call that father a murderer.

 

The way that I see it - and I'm a bit divided on the issue - is that the death penalty is extreme in most cases. State sanctioned murder - or whatever anyone wants to call it - achieves little in my eyes. While I'm all for respecting the laws of another country when visited, I personally disagree with the death penalty for crimes such as drug smuggling. To me, it seems extreme, but as I said: divided on the issue.

But hey, everyone's got their opinions...

 

What's the difference between Nguyen Tuong Van's mother and the Australian cricket team?

Nguyen Tuong Van's mum is bringing home the ashes.













*yes I'm fully aware he wasn't cooked. Still, I thought it was pretty funny.

 

Boy I can imagine. But I find it hard to believe that it would cost more than keeping him alive.

Yeah, it is difficult to believe, but it's apparently true: see for example Geoffrey Robertson, Crimes Against Humanity.

 

"A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000." (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )

"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level." (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).

 

It really disgusts me the way the media work these days. Let the damn family/friends mourn the loss of their son/friend in peace for smegs sake! It's none of our damn business that this happened, and if he weren't an Aussie we probably wouldn't have known about it in the first place.

 

"A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000." (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )

"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level." (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).

Well I'll be damned. That's amazing.
I wonder how much it would cost if he was 'accidently' killed in prison.
Besides, I wonder how well he'd do in prison, considering he snitched and all.

 

Un-necessary and vulgar.

 

I think that should be written on his tombstone:

Here lies Elliot AKA Shadow of evil

Beloved Father

and Grandfather.

Uneccessary and Vulgar.

Died in a Bar Brawl, 2077,

after celebrating 100 years of Star Wars

 

Vigilante justice - for when making sure innocent people don't get sentenced to death is just too darn expensive.

 

Died in a bar brawl!!?
What do you take me for?
Some kind of violent drunk?

 

HA HA! I know man!

you "just like knives"!

 

...and explosives, and swords, and kicking people.
Kick, gimme the death penalty!