Arena NHL Expansion (and Deflation)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by Zaz, May 24, 2009.

  1. Darth_Furio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    star 7
    They never should have left Winnipeg but the Canadian dollar was so low and the corporate support had dried up at the time so it was necessary. Now Phoenix is a different situation, there are not enough fans to sustain them on a nightly basis.
  2. SquashedFly Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2011
    Right. Their arena was a mess in particular wasn't it? As mentioned before I am a relative newcomer to this sport so excuse any ignorance I may have. I will try to keep my posting to a minimum when the discussion turns to those with much more hockey knowledge than me :p.

    I have read a little about the Jets though. So if the Coyotes dissolve how does it work? Some sort of draft would take place for their players? Or would they all just become free agents? I have heard the majority of the Phoenix players don't want to go to Winnipeg so presumably if they moved again that team would have to start from scratch?
  3. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Only one team has ever simply dissolved in the modern era--I forget which one--but I believed they merged it with another team. Been awhile. Can't do that now, because the owners overpaid to get into the league, and want compensation.

    So now the league is in dire straits. They've got ten failing franchises, and only three obvious destinations. The American possibilities have dried up due to the recession, so that leaves Toronto, Winnipeg and Quebec City. Saskatchewan is probably stretching it, even though the province is loaded with commodity wealth and has the best job situation in Canada. It still only has a million people total.
  4. SquashedFly Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2011
    Yes, poor choice of words, sorry about that. I was wondering if anyone would call me out about that. I couldn't think of the right word at the time. I hope that doesn't keep happening. Oh well. :p


    And I apologise to everyone if I get a bit rambly, my first few posts on new boards tend to go that way abit so I'm sorry in advance.
  5. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    It did happen--in the 1970's--they just merged two clubs and held an inter-league draft of the excess players. I think. I thought it was the Kansas City Scouts, but it may have been Cleveland.

    EDIT: It *was* Cleveland, and they merged with the Minnesota North Stars (now the Dallas Plain Old Stars)
  6. SquashedFly Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2011
    Interesting, thanks for the info.
  7. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    They could move the Islanders to Victoria, come to think of it. They wouldn't even have to change their name.
  8. Darth_Furio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    star 7
    :p Nice.
  9. darthdrago Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2003
    star 4
    But since the Canucks are now enjoying playoff success, wouldn't they object to a team moving into their area? Be it Seattle or BC, I'd think the Nucks would be concerned about a local rival taking some revenue now that they themselves stand a good chance of increasing season ticket sales & merchandise sales based on this past season.

    I'll confess that I'm not up on the QC politics like other folks here. What's the main reason why Quebec City still hasn't received a franchise after the Nordiques/Avs moved? With so many Francophone players in the league, I'd think that QC would be a "can't miss" opportunity. Is it a league issue or a local city issue?? :confused:
  10. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    They need a state-of-the-art arena to attract a team, and want the federal government to pay for most of it. (They spit upon the federal gov't in general, except when demanding money.) Because Winnipeg built their new facility without a lot of federal funding, the feds are extremely reluctant, because they know it will turn into a political football.

    Yes, I'm sure Acquilini would exercise his veto on Vancouver Island, but hey the Island has 700,000 plus people. About the same as Quebec City and Winnipeg. Why not? And since travel is the Canuck's worst foe, why not have a close team?
  11. Darth_Furio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    star 7
    QC is in a bit of a jam though, because they need an arena or the promise of one to attract the team, and the government is iffy because there is no team to put into a new buidling.
  12. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    They can do what Winnipeg did; find a local millionaire with plenty of money.
  13. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    True, they could do that. :p For some reason, I'm convinced that the Isles will stay in the US - either in the NYC area (Brooklyn, perhaps, where the New Jersey Nets are moving in 2012), or to Kansas City.
  14. Darth_Furio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    star 7
    Are you Gary Bettman? :p
  15. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Brooklyn? They've have to pay fees to the Rangers, and they are already 100,000,000.00 in debt.

    Kansas City has already failed once as a franchise (and don't ignore that warning, cf. Colorado and Atlanta), and St. Louis is for sale...Missouri's not that interested.
  16. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    [face_sick]


    I wasn't aware they'd have to pay the Rangers money...they're already in the area, I thought they had an agreement worked out between the two clubs (and the Devils, too, probably). Charles Wang is a terrible owner, no matter what goes down. :p
  17. Darth_Furio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    star 7
    [face_laugh]

    I'm not sure how much of an issue it would be with the Islanders in Brooklyn, only because the Rangers have their fan base and are sold out all the time. So there shouldn't be a worry to losing fans or seat sales. The Islander fans would never betray their team IMO either and maybe they can save the franchise by moving closer to the NYC.
  18. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    I was listening to a sports business show on Team 1040 and it said that if Miami, Phoenix and Atlanta moved to Canada, their value would immediate go up 50 per cent, and increase the value of the remaining franchises, too.
  19. Darth_Furio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    star 7
    Of course Bettman thinks this is a bad idea. :rolleyes:
  20. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    But then people couldn't watch their favorite teams play when they went to South Beach! :eek: :p

    I do find the idea of all the struggling US teams going to Canadian markets to be entirely silly, though.
  21. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    It will be no more than 3.
  22. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    I have a hard time believing that three will move north of the boarder. I guess we'll wait and see, though.
  23. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    The market for expansion has dried up down South, and Bettman was especially counting on Las Vegas, which has taken a dreadful hit in the recession. He has to put these teams somewhere. I favour Seattle and Portland, but I really have no idea if the teams would flourish there.
  24. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Portland just got an MLS team, so I don't think that they'd be likely to get an NHL franchise so soon. Seattle I could see.
  25. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    From the net: "The Lightning's current run notwithstanding, hockey in the South may be an endangered species. Covering games at Philips Arena in Atlanta this year I noticed how dead the ambience is and how poor the attendance is. That wasn't the case at most Panthers games this season. ... Clearly, Michael Yormark is banking on GM Dale Tallon to reverse the 10-year playoff drought by putting together a winning product. But no matter how commissioner Bettman or Yormark spins it, how long can the franchise and owner Cliff Viner continue to bleed money before the NHL steps in like they did in Phoenix? While Yormark, to his credit, is selling the rights to anything that's not nailed down, including the ice surface, the race is on.

    Sun-Sentinel"