Discussion in 'EU Community' started by sdhfs, Feb 8, 2005.
Thank you Typo! That's exactly what I mean!
Corran still cannot do that. He can increase his strength but that's about it.
You are very welcome.
P.S. our answers are very alike, check above yours a few posts.
Apparently you guys don't understand the difference between enhancing physical abilities (which Corran certainly CAN do) and using TK.
There certianly is a difference between the 2
Actually, I do.
When you inhance, you allow yourself to run faster, jump higher, and hit harder. however, there are limits to the inhancements. Furthermore, they don't allow you to do the wonderful flying, flipping jumps that we see Luke do. That is TK. Corran is certainly able to inhance himself, but cannot use the TK and many other force abilities that are added to that. as previously stated, that makes Corran spend more time on skill with the blade.
There is no TK involved in swinging a blade, period, and Luke's acrobatics are Force enhanced. He only uses TK when he needs extra extra height. You just proved my point.
If you read my post again, you will see that I said that there are limits to the inhancement. Luke, just like his father, used TK to jump higher and farther(which is more important than it sounds), and to "throw" random objects at enemies, which Luke does do in the NJO.
It also comes in handy when you must backflip in order to avoid a strong hit from an enemy.
You have yet to make a valid arguement otherwise.
When did Luke have to backflip? When did Luke backflip at all? I can think of one time in the NJO when Luke did a flip of any kind, and it was really more of a cartwheel. Luke has used something reminiscent of every Form. I don't know where this constant TK use accusation is coming from.
Lets see. If he fights anything like what he did in the OS, then he probably used TK more than once.
The question is who is a better swordsman, and I still think that Corran is it. If the question was "who was the greatest NJO fighter" I would say Luke by a million miles.
Luke has used every Form and invented one. Luke has mastered every Jedi weapon combination(one saber, two, two sabers of different length). Luke has fought multiple opponents with ease and defeated Sidious in a lightsaber battle, taking off his arm. Come ROTS you weill see just how huge that is. Luke killed Shimrra after being stabbed with a spinning quadruple slash. But ignoring that for a second, compare those accomplishments to Corran...barely beating Shedao Shai? Are we reading the same books here?
Again, if you had read my original post, you will notice that I specifically addressed that issue.
Your original post makes no sense whatsoever as telekinesis does not tie in directly with swordsmanship. You couldn't be farther from fact. Oh wait, it gets worse - you said that Corran progressed faster than Luke? Apparently Shadao Shai is a match for Darth Vader, who Luke stood up to with a few weeks tops of training, and then beat with two years tops of training, most of it self trained. And Shedao came well after Corran started. Luke is the greatest, has the fastest learning curve, and is unmatched in combat or in skill by any one of his contemporaries, and probably by anyone period.
Dude, you obviously need to reread all of my posts again, since everything you have posted has already been addressed by me. You have run out of arguements, just give up.
PS. I said Corran progressed faster than Luke in the NJO. No jedi has ever progressed as fast as Luke did against Vader. As a master, Luke had less to progress as, whereas Corran had to learn and progress more because of lack of experience.
The reason why Luke had less to progress is because he'd already reached the zenith of skill. You can't get much better at that level. You clearly don't understand the fighting mechanics at all and it shows in each and every one of your posts. You have no argument. Telekinesis doesn't have anything to do with skill and that's been half of your argument this entire time. Corran isn't even the best of the NJO not counting Luke, much less better than the greatest swordsman and Jedi ever.
Do you only read half of every post?
The points that you made in your last post have already been said!
Furthermore, I said that I would CONCEDE that Luke was better, and I stood by it until you got ignorant about it.
Not once did you say Luke was the better swordsman. Maybe you should read more than half of mine.
Actually, If you look at my second post, the last paragraph before my P.S., I do.
So, you obviously don't read more than half a post.
I was too busy floating through the sea of typos to see that you said Luke was "better". Well that's great. Better at what? You specifically later on made the distinction between swordsman and warrior and that Corran was the better "swordsman." Which is ridiculous. So you're either incorrect in saying that you gave up or you contradicted yourself. Read your own posts before posting, how about.
Luke killing the pathetic slayers is nothing. I could have killed those stupid weaklings with my hands tied behind my back. That's how bad the slayers were. So what if it was harder to cut into their hides, so what if they used their amphistaffs like swords rather than staves. Doesn't make them better. In fact, using their amphistaffs like swords probably is what made them weaker and easier to kill.
Ganner was the better swordsman if you want to go with the statistics route. At least he was turned into the Keeper of the Gates of Hell by the Yuzzies! Was Luke or Kyp or Corran? No!
But if you want to go the skill route, then Luke is the better swordsman. Why? Because he was able to handle two lightsabers at once. That takes skill.
Killing a bunch of enemies is one thing, you can batter and bash your opponent until he's dead. But killing your enemy quickly with a masterful stroke of the blade and a flick of your wrist is totally different. Skill and style determines who is the better swordsman. Not how many you can kill. If you can kill the enemy in one or two strokes, then you've got it mastered.
Swordsmanship is like chess. The quicker and less moves you can kill your oppenant with, the better.
Fighting four people at once, all of which are armed with multiple weapons, all of which can destroy conventional Vong in seven time their number, attacking you at once, all of which can take multiple saber hits, after singlehandedly fighting through a Citadel of armed Vong with amphistaffs and thud bugs and explosives, and fighting the leader and strongest Vong after all of that. That can't be compared with Ganner lasting a few minutes against people who went one on one with him until they had to get over their dead to fight him. Just a general issue I wanted to address.
TypoCelchu: While your arguement is solid, you forgot to account for improvement throughout the length of the NJO.
There were no scenes demonstrating that Corran improved at all after his fight with Shedao Shai, and even if he did, there's no reason to assume he would have improved at a greater rate than those above him.
I admit I've made a number of assumptions, and that is one of them. Naturally, the evidence from the end of the series will be more accurate regarding skill at the end than evidence from the beginning, so take my analysis of Corran with a grain of salt if you like. However, I personally believe Corran's fight with Shedao Shai is solid enough evidence.
Also, fighting a group of Vong is less indicative of relative skill than outright duels. This is due to the unknown nature of the relative skill of the unnamed opponents. That's why I didn't use group fighting in my analysis.
Furthermore, Corran does not have the Telekenisis ability as many of the other Jedi do. Because of this, Corran has to Improve more in the area of swordplay. He cannot easily float away, or jump over the enemy, so he must rely on his "hunches" and on his ability with the sword. Luke clearly has better Telekenisis, and can use this to his benifit, allowing a sloppier sword form and ability.
How one moves his or her own body is often just as important in swordsmanship as how one moves the sword (and in this case, that includes Telekinetic enhanced movements)
Corran compensates for a handicap (relative to his fellow Jedi), but that doesn't make him a superior swordsman overall. Quite the contrary, it places him around the same level as Mara, as demonstrated by their duels, IMO.
P.S. Corran beat Luke in a dual when He left the academy.
Jaina also defeated Jacen in a mental duel at some point in the NJO. However, neither instance is very indicative of relative skill, IMO, because neither Jacen nor Luke were actually taking the duels very seriously (in Jacen's case, not serious enough to fight efficiently, and in Luke's case, not seriously enough to keep his mind on the fight).
Saber movements are not enhanced telekinetically. They are enhanced physically. Luke's duel with Sidious should tell you all you need to know about his skill, Shedao is nothing. Even Shimrra, who is the strongest Vong of the bunch, got owned in style even though Luke had fought an abyss worth of enemies beforehand. And since the relative skill of slayers is much higher than the average Vong, you can't minimize that either.