[NJO] Is this whole thing just a bad attempt to mimic the redemption of Anakin cycle?

OK I'm only about 6 books into the NJO and I'm already disgusted with the Del Rey (?) leadership for this project. The writers all do at least a decent job -- some even make it to pretty good -- but most of the stuff that really gets my goat I lay squarely at the feet of the overall leaders.

I suppose some stuff could get better later. But this is what is really annoying me so far:

Anakin are about the only major character that's believable. But even his mourning Chewie got a bit annoying eventually. I would have prefered a bit more action for Jaina and Luke and Mara but oh well. Corran was done pretty well at first but his getting the blame for Ithor got a bit annoying -- and his responce wasn't much better.

Kyp is a total moron who just doesn't fit AT ALL with his history. I mean this is a guy who fell to the dark side and bent over backwards to try to redeem himself -- literally so, he bent himself into a position no normal person could fit into to get out of the escape pod on the star crusher. He then turns around and can't behave like a decent human being but isn't going around as a dark jedi? It doesn't fit. Let anybody else play the role of "Luke Basher" if you want but not this guy. He should have been Luke's right hand man warning people "hey I went that way, don't follow my example -- in the long run it's bad for you and bad for everybody else."

Jacen is an even bigger moron if possible. I mean this guy is just unbelievable. He wants to fight evil by sitting on his butt and being a hermit? His rationalizations and complete unwillingness to do anything until he knows everything are just stupid. I literally laughed out loud when Han yelled at him in "Rebirth". I practically shouted "Yes somebody is finally telling this idiot what a moron he's been!"

So I already realize Anakin is going to bite the bullet in another book or two, I know Jacen is going to be trained by Vergere and I have a vague idea of the Zonoma Sekot ending. If possible without spoiling me too much more, can anybody answer this question? Is this whole series just a cheap reversal of Anakin's redemption by being all about Jacen's coming from over-caution to proper proactivity?

RH

 

Regarding Kyp: Arrogance is not the same as having a firm belief in fighting back agressively (incidentally, it turns out Kyp is right, too). Kyp darkside jaunt was also more the product of too many chats with your friendly neighborhood Sith spirit, Exar Kun, rather than his innate behavior. In any case, Kyp's personlity and behavior is not subject to the readers' desires.

But it's true, Kyp does come across as a prick. Being rude is not strictly Dark Side behavior though



Regarding Jacen: Jacen's barely an adult and already wrangling with philosophical questions that Jedi many years older than him have failed to answer correctly (earning them a free one-way ticket to the Dark Side). Again, fictional characters are not required to act in ways that the reader agrees with.

It may cheer you up that by the last quarter of the NJO, he's grown up a bit.



Also, I dont see how the NJO is linked with Anakin Skywalker's history.

 

Rude? No. Attempting to weaken an enemy that does not care by putting their civilians at death's door -- and therefore such that they will die? Pretty stinking close.

As for having to do with Anakin Skywalker -- not really the question. It has nothing to do with him directly. I'm asking if this is a bad imitation of that cycle, where Anakin starts off innocent, goes hog wild on the dark side and then gets redeemed, where Jacen starts innocent, goes hog wild on the do-nothing side, and then finds a more balanced approach. And is the whole series (or at least the majority of it) basically all about that and little else?

Or am I stretching it too much?

RH

PS. Having just read the Compendium intro -- here's another idea... is this whole series a parallel to the Prequel Trilogy in which Jacen falls to the Dark Side and doesn't know it -- and later will have to be redeemed?

 

Arrogance is not the same as having a firm belief in fighting back agressively (incidentally, it turns out Kyp is right, too).

Kyp wasn't exactly right and he did deserve to be shot in Rebirth.

 

But, its damn funny watching him try to be right. And its even funnier when people believe him. "Uh yeah, er, see this here? Its a...uh...super-weapon! Heh, yeah, superweapon...ignore the giant neon sign that says "NURSERY" on it. Its there to uh...confuse you! Yeah, thats it..."

 

It's not like world ships didn't have military use. Are the good guys suposed to spare it just because there might be some civilians (who could have been put on one of the many Vong conquered planets, instead)? There might have been some civilians on the Death Star II, since it was under construction. I doubt the Rebels were in the wrong to blow it up.

 

Imagine, if you will:

A giant, gravity disrupting "moon" of a worldship comes into a system, lines up outside an orbit of an enemy fleet, planet, whatever... and summons a lick of flame to itself from a Star. Anything in its path would be disintegrated on sight.

Yes, it was a good idea.

 

At that point I actually found myself agreeing with him despite thinking he was a complete pillock before. Whilst I don't doubt that the way he tricked the others into joining him was perilously close to the darkside, the actual attack wasn't.

 

I was under the impression the worldship used a large series of basals to summon the star particles; I don't think it did it itself. Meaning it couldn't just jet into a system and send solar flares everywhere.

 

Well yeah Kyp was right in that they did need to fight back and all that. Luke was a bit over cautious and I wasn't particularly happy with the way they portrayed him in the earlier books but he shaped up pretty quick in Star By Star (which I just plowed thru last night)... almost like he was two different people. Hmm maybe that was the problem? The Luke we saw at the start was actually a Vong infiltrator and after the real Luke returns in Edge of Victory 1 he starts taking action to undo the dammage while moving slowly to avoid scaring everybody...

Naaah.

But Kyp was rude and arrogant. Dark side? No. Although he was pushing it from certain points of view, it was not as much as I originally thought when I first read Rebirth. He did endanger civilians but it wasn't that the Vong were incapable of saving their civilians they were just unwilling. So it really wasn't his fault. As for the trickery, though, yeah that wasn't right -- and he deserved every ounce of Jaina's slap and a whole lot more.

But to get back to my original question, if anybody cares to answer -- is this a reversal of the Anakin cycle or a repeating of it? I mean this predicates on Jacen being the primary character but so far he sure seems to be -- not the only by any means but certainly the primary one.

Option 1: is this whole series about Jacen going from innocent to stupid to reasonable proactiveness, kind of a reversal of the Anakin cycle?

Option 2: Or perhaps is it repeating the cycle -- Jacen goes from 1) innocent to 2) such fear of the darkside that he will not do anything to 3) finally being forced into action but then 4) he falls to the dark side and then 5) later gets redeemed? And if possible without too many spoilers, is this fully cycle contained within the NJO, or should I look to a future book for Jacen's redemption?

RH

 

Itd probably help to actually read past 6 books of the NJO before you start complaining about characters. Youre not even half way into most of the character arcs.

 

I didn't see it as a mimic in any way. I really don't see an parallel between them IN THE NJO.

 

Well, Robert, I will warn you that about half way through the NJO series you are going to observe a severe change in direction by the editors in terms of story and themes. As you drift toward the midmark, you are going to start to notice a meandering of the story. Each book will end with a major planet being destroyed but the heroes always manage to escape and retreat to fight another day. The first half of the series will mention that the Jedi are attempting a "re-examination" of their order, but this theme is largely discarded in favor of good, old fashioned rockem/sockem action. Then, after Star by Star, you will begin to notice that the editors/authors begin to use the NJO to radically alter the nature and perception of the force into a moral relativistic quandry. Now, this all may be interesting at the beginning until you realize that most of the authors/editors really don't have a clue what view of the force they are trying to convey. Readers are supposed to believe that the Jedi will emerge from this 19 book conflict with a new resolve and improved view of the Force and its powers. Instead, readers are treated to a mish-mash of post-modernism, pluralism, and moral relativism .. . . leaving the New Jedi Order mostly emasculated.

 

I don't see why it has to be this way.

With Luke, and his dad, it was stil a Sith/Jedi struggle.

Jacen has none of that. It's no the same thing. Let them be creative and figure out some unique path for the socalled NJO.

 

Actually, believe it or not, I can already see where this is going from the first few books. Yeah I cheated a bit, I skimmed through parts of TUF and another book or two so I had a few hints in advance but I could also partly see where this stupidity is going from the minute Luke doesn't crack down on Kyp being an ass or Jacen being an idiot... and the more they continue to allow that, the more I realized where it was going. Which is why I blame Del Rey managers. They were the ones that gave the authors their targets to aim for, it's not the author's fault for lack of direction, it's the managers fault for deliberatly confusing the direction. It's a bunch of moral relativism -- you nailed it on the head. And it's crap...

Let them be creative? Sure. I have no problem with this. Creativity is a great idea. But this IS **NOT** creative. It's using a medium that is already established with clear boundaries, clear sets of right and wrong, etc... and they're using it to preach hollywoodism aka moral relativism. It's not creativity. It's a plain and simple shameless attempt to preach moral relativism, nothing more, nothing less. And it disgusts me.

Creativity is a wonderful thing but this is not creativity, it's anti-religious preaching at its most sly, deceptive, and despicable.

RH

 

The NJO is an evil tool of evil atheists. Gotcha

 

I agree it's not that creative. I'm saying they SHOULD be creative.

I got tired even of Anakin "being named after his grandfather" boohoo, the agony....... er, so what?

Kids don't care about anything. It was things like there that was added to pretend there was more depth than there was. The Solo kids are written so soul searching and precocious, it's sickening.
It's kind of hard to walk the path of a man you didn't have anything to do with, or knew anything about. Esp. when you're whole family is comprised of orphans and your ancestors all have an equal shot at recessive genes.
It's like doing a 1000 piece puzzle in the dark. I wouldn't bother myself with it.

If Jacen kidnaps Ben I will laugh. Then cry. Then scream.

I mean, it's so boring. Why doesn't Ben become and architecht and a scholar like his greatgrandad? What about Naberrie genes, or (god forbid) whatever Mara's genes are? What if Mara's dad was a musician? What if her grandmother was a biologist? Where's the imagination? Why couldn't Ben have had brown hair and green eyes, like his great grandma Jobal?

There's not enough blending, not enough imagination.

 

Well, Ben is withdrawing from the Force, which is a direction I didnt see happening.

 

So you know beyond any doubt that the NJO is setting the theory of moral relativism up as The Right Thing? The Jedi subscribing to it in "The Joiner King" seemed like they were beginning to have doubts about the dark places it was taking them.

Anyway, if you think Authors are writing political agendas into Star Wars books, then perhaps it is time to just stop reading completely.

 

I know. I'm sure there are poor chaps named Jeffrey Dahmer out there, but it probably doesn't ruin their day.

Speaking of cheap emotion, I almost puked when Tahiri went to the cave-thing on Dagobah for guidance in the Force Heretic trilogy. That's Luke Skywalker's place! I'm sorry Tahiri was all conflicted, but find a new place! Same goes for Kyp and Vader's funeral pyre in JAT. Bah!

[PS: I apologize if that's considered a spoiler; I doubt it really is, but I don't know how to do the spoiler tags anyway!]

 

Is TJK a book or comic book? If B then all you have to do is read my sig to know whether I'll be reading it.

If the former, though, then I'll read it as soon as I get through with NJO. I'm not failing to read something I've bought. I just am not happy about the way things *look* like they're going. I'd honestly be delighted to be wrong.

RH

 

Wow, you not only see anti-Religion in the NJO, you consider comics for people with no brains. What a clever little chappy you are!
*reads a Jan/John story and laughs*

 

How is the NJO anti-religion? If anything, the new look on the Force is MORE religious and has many parallels with the Hindu belief. So in fact, it is actually promoting a religious look on life rather than the midichlorian view thing...

 

Yes, I'd have thought that any view on the Force is religious pretty much by definition. I fail to see how the NJO is anti-religious - I mean, it's not like they're trying to say that the Force doesn't exist at all. (Which considering it's the most important setting element in SW, isn't going to happen. )