No Cowboy/Outlaw Character??

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Valin_Fett21, Apr 14, 2005.

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  1. Valin_Fett21 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Obviously few critics have liked the prequels thus far, and we as fans have not been shy to point out some areas where these movies are lacking (acting, editing, time flow etc.). I would like to open the floor to questions regarding the lack of the outlaw/cowboy character such as Han Solo/Lando in the prequels. There are possibilities but no character provides the uncompromisng, cynical and comical presence that made the original movies more enjoyable to watch. Mace Windu has that type of personality but is not utilized well enough. Jango Fett had less than 15 lines. Jar Jar.....well is Jar Jar. There is no character to which we look to in anticipation of a wisecrack comment or cynical snarl. And no character has the 'dont mess with me' confidence other than Mace Windu and Yoda, who again we know who he becomes and already have a relation to from the original trilogy.

    Any Thoughts?
  2. jangoisadrunk Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    The galaxy was still, perhaps, too organized for a Han Solo type character to flourish. The PT is about the Jedi and the fall of the Republic. Where would a "cowboy" fit into this?

    Obviously few critics have liked the prequels thus far

    Anytime one starts an opinion statement with "Obviously" trouble results.

    Go to metacritic.com or rottentomato.com and you can plainly see your statement is inaccurate, since half of the reviews on those sites for PT films are positive. In fact RotJ scores exactly the same as ATOC which is only 1 point higher than TPM.
  3. michaelbacca Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2005
    star 1
    But if half gave them positive ratings, the other half would have given the movies negative ratings. Kind of split don't you think?
  4. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It's still inaccurate to say that few critics likes the prequels.

    As for the topic, I would say that the cynisism and the wit of Han is spread over several characters in the PT. Obi-Wan has the charm and the wit. Qui-Gon and Anakin are rogues. Jar Jar is skeptical about the Force("Ooh, maxi-big the Force! Well, that smells stinka-wiff!")
    Granted, there's not much of it. However, I think the growing conflicts between characters in the prequels make them very interesting and I don't see the need for another Solo character.



    Han Solo is overrated
    /LM
  5. darth-amedda Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2003
    star 4
    There's sth about it. But I guess that this comment seems to be very accurate:

    "As for the topic, I would say that the cynisism and the wit of Han is spread over several characters in the PT'.


    Probably the closest to be THE cowboy/outlaw character (cynical, sceptical) is Jango Fett, but as you've said, he is minor character.
  6. Philagape Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2005
    star 1
    Actually, The Republic doesn't seem all that civilized. The Coruscant chase in AOTC shows a seedy urban underbelly ... who knows what kind of outlaws hung out in that bar? There are wars, factions, crime, corruption, and there appears to plenty of work for bounty hunters. The Republic had its flaws like any society, which is why Palpatine was able to exploit it. I'm sure there could have been a believable cowboy character. One of the strengths of ANH was the teamwork -- and conflict -- between wise, civilized Obi-Wan and cocky, carefree Han. That kind of relationship makes for an interesting film, and you do see it to a lesser extent between Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC.
  7. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    The seedy underbelly will always exist in any universe. Any place where there are laws, there will be an illegal underground to match it. However, with the empire's oppressive reign, it likely became far more lucrative to smuggle goods due to the control over the supplies and the immense danger of being caught. Where things are restricted or forbidden, a contraband market will flourish.

    Personally, I don't mind the lack of a Han Solo character. The PT, while mirroring the OT in several respects, does not to have to be a direct imitation. The Big Three work well because the state of the galaxy works to bring them together. The PT is more focused on the political intricacies of raising an empire, so the focus has to turn a bit more toward the ruling "elite" class.
  8. Saberwielder315 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Also there really is no room in the story for one during the prequels. But it is not like we don't see any of these characters at all. ON Coruscant we do see that there is a crime world, that includes drug dealing and so on and so forth. There was just no oppurtunity for a character like that yet.

    I mean, I can;t see little Anakin Skywalker the minute he gets on board the Queens ship having a jolly old chat with some smuggler. Ro during the Battle of Geonosisnhaving some flyboy in his POS ship flying around saving the day. It just would not fit.
  9. hear+soul Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 6
    I see it more like that personality trait has kind of been distributed throughout all the characters.

    Characters who were sarcastic more often than not in the OT: Solo

    PT: Obi, Anakin, Padme, etc.
  10. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    There's also Jango for the whole Outlaw thing it's just at this point the heroes are allied with the government, not against them.
  11. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    I don't find that the absence of a character who is of more dubious provenence to be a deficiency in the prequels thus far, although I can accept intellectually why it might give some more casual viewers a reason for pause. I think that the general lack of clearly delineated archetypal figures in the first two films does present a bit of a stumbling block for those who aren't already intimately familiar with the universe in question - the original pictures had a reverential style which tapped into nostalgic, serialized fantasy, while the prequels employ an aesthetic which is deliberately less accessible and amusing - the romantic adventure of Episodes IV-VI has been supplanted with an antithetical tone which suggests a de-mystified reality featuring labyrinthine political machinations, and a more formal, stylized melodrama. The underlying implication presented by the author of this thread would seem to indicate that the prequels would be more "entertaining" if there were a more cynical, human character to whom the audience could relate, placed within the context of the films in order to create a synthetic feeling of dramatic contrast - as I have mentioned, I don't feel that this would in any way be necessary - there is enough repetition and thematic symmetry between the two trilogies without having to further engage in specific character parallels.

    I actually like the fact that Lucas has chosen to use a diametric series of tonal, acting, and dialogue consistencies for the prequels; its most important function is that of being representative (in a figurative, rather than an entirely literal manner) of a different era, something which is, I think, crucial to creating a palpable sense of dramatic complexity and development over the course of the six-film cycle. "The first trilogy was much more goofy and more plot-driven. [The prequels] are more character-driven and a bit on the grim side. It's the tonality that's different. I've gone a little bit toward film noir," Lucas said in a 2002 "Film Comment" interview. While some may take issue with the manner in which he has realized Episodes I and II, I think that on a conceptual level, he at least had the right idea. It would be a colossal mistake, in my opinion, for him to rework the same series of influences which served as the artistic template for the first trilogy, due to all of the reasons that I have already mentioned - considering that Lucas is in fact citing a different style of film for the prequel trilogy, and that cynical everyman-types were not exactly prevalent in those films, the inclusion of a "Han Solo" would therefore be incongruous.
  12. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    :eek: Great post!
    Also, a more "human" character doesn't have to be cynical. In TPM, we often have Jar Jar to relate to, because he is kind of an observer who occasionally dares to question the ways of the Jedi(without being particularly cynical, since he believes in the gungan gods). Also, he often reacts in a very human way to the various things that happen in the film. He gets curious, afraid or uncomfortable where the others do not.
    Many fans are unable to relate to him, though, which is why they think the movie needs a cynical character.
    In AOTC, it's more difficult to pick one character that is more relatable than the others. I guess Threepio serves that purpose, as he did in the OT. He's not very involved in the events of that movie, though.



    Humans are ugly
    /LM
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