Lit No Imperial Sexism in the New Canon

The Balance of the Force is an ecological allegory? The meaning of "bringing Balance to the Force" is probably the most debated aspect of Star Wars, but I've never heard that interpretation. And if pollution affected the Force the way Alderaan's destruction affected it, Obi-wan would be constantly passed out from Nal Hutta and Raxus Prime alone.

Anyway the Empire is expansionist and has a callous disregard for sentient life so they probably WOULD pollute more than the Rebels and Old Republic. But I thought it was a little over the top, which is why I compared it to the old "the Empire doesn't allow female officers" trope. Also I couldn't help but think "Surely all those secret factories making X-wings don't run on sunshine and produce rainbows instead of exhaust?"

 

Honestly, while it's getting a little off-topic, I feel obliged to point out that the whole "Captain Planet" thing with the Empire gratuitously destroying planetary ecosystems has a long history in Star Wars. It's pretty common in WEG material, and while not explicitly seen in the OT it does align thematically with some of the stuff Lucas said at the time. It's by no means an invention of Lost Stars.

 

If novelizations are counted, there's references to it in the ROTJ one:

Threepio
"Chief Chirpa says it's a very moving story. But it really has nothing to do with Ewoks."

Han
"Tell them this, Goldenrod- "
"Tell them it's hard to translate a rebellion, so maybe a translator shouldn't tell the story. So I'll tell 'em."
"They shouldn't help us 'cause we're asking 'em to. They shouldn't even help us 'cause it's in their own interest to - even though it is, you know - just for one example, the Empire's tappin' a lot of energy out of this moon to generate its deflector shield, and that's a lot of energy you guys are gonna be without come winter, and I mean you're gonna be hurtin' … but never mind that. Tell 'em, Threepio."
"But that's not why they should help us. That's why I used to do stuff, because it was in my interest. But not any more. Well, not so much, anyway. Mostly I do things for my friends, now - 'cause what else is so important? Money? Power? Jabba had that, and you know what happened to him. Okay, okay, the point is - your friends are … your friends. You know?"


There's allusions to ecosystem-damaging mining by the Empire (in defiance of its own regulations) in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, too.

 

I'm confused at the idea totalitarian governments have ever been concerned with long term ecological stability vs. rapid industrialization.

Anyone ever hear of Stalin?

 

First of all, the entire concept of the Force is as much an ecological allegory as it is spiritual. In fact, Star Wars is essential deep ecology because of it. And Lucas' preferred method of talking about the whole matter of balance refers to symbiosis and cancer.

As to impact of ecological devastation over the long term(planetary pollution) vs the short term (planetary destruction via superlaser): it wouldn't be strange if longer term devastation caused a lower level stress on the hearts of Jedi than when it happens in one explosive moment. People get used to low level pain and take more immediate notice of a broken arm than a constant ache.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

The finest works of Star Wars fiction ever published had a strong but subtle ecological message. While other authors have dabbled in the subject, only Paul and Hollace Davids had the vision to realize ecological awareness is a key pillar of the Star Wars franchise.

 

I don't like the idea of women in the empire because I don't associate women with the oppressive regimes of the past which is what the empire was modeled after.

Seeing women in the first order made them LESS threatening to me. Those older british dudes looked and felt the part.

 

Isabella of Spain would beg to differ.

 

Also Elizabeth I of England is pretty much my least favorite ruler in the history of the human race. Remember Tyburn.

I feel like the whole "Imperial sexism" thing is kind of a hard one to tackle. At the outset, there's a distinction between just having a situation where most Imperial soldiers are men on the one hand--and making "sexism" an actual plot point, especially in more extreme or ugly ways.

The whole Daala thing in the EU is an example of the latter approach, basically. The New Canon has generally taken the former path.

I'm sort of of two minds about this. On the one hand, this is, to an extent, kind of unnecessary. The Empire can be plenty evil without being evil in every way. We have plenty of other stuff to go on, certainly, and people of all kinds do identify with Imperial characters. Fan engagement is (and always has been) a big part of the Star Wars franchise, and that shouldn't be dismissed.

On the other hand, sex-based issues and conflicts are kind of endemic to the human race throughout all of human history; and most corrosive societies have shown them to a very great extent. The Empire exists in part to reflect negative tendencies in human nature and society in an external form. "Racism" and xenophobia and nationalism and all those kinds of things can be pretty easily replaced with speciesism and other alien-based stuff--which is, to a degree, what alien races in Star Wars really are, just stand-ins for different human nationalities, groups, etc. But sex-based violence and discrimination can't really be addressed in this way, for obvious reasons. So I wonder if, in the long run, this might make it harder to really address these kinds of issues in Star Wars. Also, having the dirty fascist devil-worshippers also be perfect gender-egalitarians might seem a bit strange. Star Wars (unlike Star Trek) is not generally utopian or progressive in its construction of society in the GFFA (since the GFFA is based on historical societies and generally ones in a state of decay/dissolution), and this would be a kind of large exception to that rule.

On the other hand, though, much (if not the overwhelming majority) of how this was dealt with in the old EU was fairly childish, and often kind of sexist in itself (again, Daala is the key example). So perhaps it's better not to go there at all.

As I said, I don't have a strong opinion on this, necessarily. But I will be interested to see how it develops as the EU continues.

This is, though, really just one part of a much larger issue--which is that the Empire's presentation was created originally to appeal to a very narrow set of American historical and imaginative prejudices: the British Empire and Nazi Germany, basically. The larger picture of the Empire was also derived from Japan and Medieval Europe and the Roman Empire; but what was projected onscreen primarily were the visual and aural elements of Nazis and English Imperialism. So a lot of the talk of "white males" is kind of missing the point, actually. The Rebellion was always supposed to be a contrast to the Empire; but what that meant is that it appealed, visually, to a certain kind of mid-century "all-American" self-image (more rugged, less polished, younger, less "military"), as well as some vague Medieval European motifs--both of which were perfectly compatible with the predominant presence of "white males" in the Rebel Alliance. Still, part of the Rebel aesthetic and the contrast underlying it was the presence of "diversity" in some sense; the Empire (read: Germany) was supposed to seem stiff and conformist and uniform, while the Rebellion was America (free and equal). The biggest part, actually, and definitely the most deliberate in all this, from the very beginning, was the foregrounding of the "Princess" figure (and later Mon Mothma) in the Rebel leadership, set in opposition to Tarkin, Vader, and the Emperor. So gender (and gender diversity) was always a part of the mix, and a part of the contrast between Empire and Rebellion.

Still, it wasn't necessarily about diversity in exactly the sense we think of it today, and the aesthetic of the Empire's badness was never just that they were a bunch of "white males."

The underlying issue to all of this is just that Star Wars has lasted a long, long time, and gone entirely global, and the big question is how much of its original aesthetic language should or even can be preserved, and in what ways. The basic question is how much those very specific references can still make sense when your audience is literally everyone in the world over generations. Most younger people at this point, I'd wager, are more familiar with the Empire in Star Wars than they are with either the British Empire or the Nazis; and Imperial aesthetics have become wildly popular with both men and women all around the world. When people today see the Imperials onscreen in Rogue One, they no longer think "Nazis"--they're much, much more likely to think "white males". And that's a whole 'nother ballgame, frankly.

Star Wars will, inevitably, change its aesthetic vocabularies over time--it already has. But it's hard to know how to do it, exactly.

Basically, I think we can expect this to be a contested space for some time to come. That's really all I'm sure of.

 

Part of the issue I have is the fact that most of the authoritarian regimes of the 20th century that inspired the Empire were actually progressive in terms of recruiting women versus society as a whole.

Human history was sexist.

But fascist regimes very often employ women because they'll use anyone if they can get a benefit from them. Also, historically, Star Wars is about archetypes and women have a lot of them in terms of these kind of Pulpy stories.

The Evil Princess
The Baroness
The Female Enemy Agent

Let's face it, Flash Gordon had General Kala and that was in 1980.

Blake's Seven had Servalan and she was terrifying.

 

Legends sexism always felt tacked on, like the writers had a checklist of policies evil organizations had they were going through.

 

Not everyone identifies with the Rebels. The Empire needs female representation too. I love all the female Imperials we've been getting lately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Also the GFFA is different from Earth. So trying to do a direct one to one comparison/analogy doesn't really work. There's no evidence in the OT for example to indicate the Empire is sexist (through dialogue or actions) outside of them being a bunch of old British guys (which had more pragmatic reasoning behind).

Basically it was some others taking a TINY sample size, taking it out of context, and then trying to apply it to an organization as a whole, which also doesn't work.

It makes much more sense imo for the Empire to go "we don't really care what you're gender or skin color is, we just care that you're loyal and human."

 

I did read the rebels even were specieist to some certain aliens in legends. Perhaps the Nucanon can take inspiration from the EU's Pius Dea and use that to reflect on anti-alien prejudice and then tie that into RL if they so choose.

 

I mean up until ROTJ, the onscreen Rebellion that we see is like 99.9% White and male. And Leia is the only woman Rebel to get any significant screentime/development. Which is even more evidence pointing to it being more about practical logistical reasons in the films, rather than an attempt to make a grand statement about sexism or anything.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes the guy carrying an ice cream maker in Bespin is just an ice cream maker being carried.

 

I'm not one to let on-screen capture my opinion though-you have to have some sort of imagination.

 

GL *could* have also expanded the Imperial ranks to include non-humans and women in ROTJ had he been so inclined. He didn't. He did have more non-humans and more women in the Rebel fleet. There were a few women piloting starfighters for sure.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

So we're solid on the Empire being against aliens but they're really not sexist or racist. Got it.

 

I feel like they got rid of it because of today's political climate in real life which is so dumb because Star Wars is just a fantasy adventure universe and there breaking immersion by playing this "all inclusive" affirmative action nonsense in a fictional universe especially with what is supposed to be a facist regime. How many Women and Non-whites had high ranks in the Nazi and Soviet Empires? I feel like the influence is coming from someone who has no real love and understanding of Star Wars and just wants to push her political agenda at Lucasfilm (Kiri Hart)

 

Again, the Nazis and Soviet Union are WEIRD places to point to for women not to be involved. They're literally the place in fascist regimes of history you will MOST likely find women ready to kill you.

Albeit, they'd be trying to kill the other first.

Assuming Star Wars is NO more progressive than us despite 20,000 years of civilization, we'd still have TIE pilots, AT-AT drivers, political officers, and guards at prison camps.

No, there wasn't a high ranking Isard figure in either but Leia is Charles De Gaulle's counterpart so there's kind of wiggle room there.