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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

No, there is another: Other vfx companies and general discussion thread

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by v8er77, Jan 26, 2007.

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  1. Kaero_Shan

    Kaero_Shan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2006
    From vfxworld.com:

    The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences unveiled the seven films remaining in contention for Achievement in Visual Effects for the 80th Academy Awards.

    * THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM (Double Negative)
    * EVAN ALMIGHTY (Rhythm & Hues, ILM)
    * THE GOLDEN COMPASS (Rhythm & Hues, Cinesite, Framestore CFC, Digital Domain and Rainmaker, among others)
    * I AM LEGEND (Sony Pictures Imageworks)
    * PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: AT WORLD'S END (ILM)
    * 300 (Animal Logic, Buzz, Hybride, Hydraulx, Lola, among others).
    * TRANSFORMERS (ILM)

    So which three will they pick up for nomination?
    I think Pirates, Transformers and Colden Compass will be the lucky ones.

    So good chances for ILM at the academy awards!

    ILM is indeed still the first name in special effects/visual effects.

    Does anyone know where I can find a database of nominations and wins at the oscars concerning all special and visual effects companies. I didn`t find it at the official site.
     
  2. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
    I think the nods will go to Transformers, 300 and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End. I think Transformers should win.
     
  3. ObiWanCon

    ObiWanCon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2004
    TRANSFORMERS should defiantly win.
     
  4. GreenLantern_Jedi

    GreenLantern_Jedi Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 31, 2007
    I think they're about equal now.

    WETA still does miniature photography, which is going to edge ILM out whenever a director wants an old fashioned miniature shot. But if you look closely at the "trend", alot of filmmakers just don't want to, or can't afford to, travel to NZ to do their FX. If WETA opened a U.S. branch in California (the way Henson had a Creature Shop in NYC) then they'd be a real threat.

    As things stand, ILM & WETA seem to be dividing the lion's share of big FX jobs between them. And as others have pointed out, there's a lot of cross pollination, cooperation & collaboration between the two companies.

    Richard Taylor is a smart & talented man - he's made alot of great decisions (like going into tv animation). I'm not a huge fan of his aesthetic style (Rob Coleman is more my style!) but you have to give credit where credit is due. And he started independent in the 1980's, he's earned his success!

    Good luck to both companies.
     
  5. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    ILM is doing miniatures as well and I don't think that that will change anytime soon.
     
  6. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Indeed. Now that the ILM model shop has spun off into a separate company "Kerner Optical", they can bid on separate film contracts on their own when projects going through ILM don't require model work. They'll be able to do more films making them more competitive with WETA.

    We discussed this in detail in this thread: http://boards.theforce.net/lucasfilm_projects_indiana_jones_4/b10265/24133289/p2/?18

     
  7. Jango10

    Jango10 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2002
    I'd say Pirates, Transformers, and 300 for the Oscars. I'm surprised Spiderman 3 isn't on the list.

    I Am Legend had great shots of NYC, but the creature effects were a little shotty.
     
  8. malducin

    malducin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Does anyone know where I can find a database of nominations and wins at the oscars concerning all special and visual effects companies. I didn`t find it at the official site.


    There not one for companies per se, since nominations and awards are given to individuals, not facilities. The best way is to cross check with IMDB.

    I'm actually surprised of some of the selections of the 7 finalists.
     
  9. Kaero_Shan

    Kaero_Shan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Thank you malducin.

    Sorry if this post is going to be a bit longer, but as your forum at ilmfan.com is down (before I had the chance to register) I`d like to discuss and ask some things.
    BTW, there`s an update at the ilm-site concerning the films in production (didn`t know they are involved in Speed Racer).

    I know the award is given to individuals,and I`m happy when the winning individual belongs to ILM :)
    And I`m just curious because nobody of WETA is in the 7 remaining films this year.
    It seems to me as if WETA after King Kong has a bit of a downfall (have they been nominated since King Kong???). I mean I love the LOTR-trilogy, but some of the compositing work...(okay that`s another topic).
    ILM on the other side, with the first academy award win since 14 years for Pirates 2, does have very good chances this year too.

    WETA will have a comeback with Camerons Avatar and the 2 Hobbit movies. What does ILM have in the can for the next 2 years (is imdb.com that accurate, I mean Jurassic Park scheduled for 2008, come on???) There`s nothing listet there for 2009 besides Interstellar.

    And concerning Transformers 2:
    Will ILM still be on board for the sequel?
    I mean, now that Digital Domain is owned by Michael Bay (is it right he could not kick ILM away due to legal issues and since they were hired before he bought DD), will ILM or DD be the main VFX-house on the sequel???

    Sorry again for this long post.

    Kaero

    P.S.: If some of these questions are not fitting well in this thread I`m sorry. If there are other threads concerning ILM or other VFX-stuff here at TFN, I`d like to know.
     
  10. malducin

    malducin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    If some of these questions are not fitting well in this thread I`m sorry. If there are other threads concerning ILM or other VFX-stuff here at TFN, I`d like to know.


    Nope, this is the right forum for all ILM and Lucasfilm questions.

    BTW, there`s an update at the ilm-site concerning the films in production (didn`t know they are involved in Speed Racer).


    Well, ILM's site is a bit slow in the update department. My site (at least when I worked on it ;-) was a bit more up to date. Time to dust it off, he. BTW they're involved in more projects than than those listed.

    And I`m just curious because nobody of WETA is in the 7 remaining films this year. It seems to me as if WETA after King Kong has a bit of a downfall (have they been nominated since King Kong???)


    Well King Kong was just 2 years ago, it's not like they haven't been considered in a long time. In 2006 they had a few projects that were small or medium, and the big ones were multi-house affairs. I think they did reach the 7 finalists with Eragon (which ILM also worked on). In 2007 their big project was The Water Horse, which was great (a few dodgy cg doubles, but besides that spectacular work). As I mentioned, some of the choices for the 7 finalists for this year were very surprising. Something like the Water Horse could have taken the place of Evan Almighty or Bourne.

    I mean I love the LOTR-trilogy, but some of the compositing work...(okay that`s another topic).


    Hehe, yeah another topic. Hint, there was a reason 3 extra supes werebrought in late in the game.

    WETA will have a comeback with Camerons Avatar and the 2 Hobbit movies. What does ILM have in the can for the next 2 years (is imdb.com that accurate, I mean Jurassic Park scheduled for 2008, come on???)


    If anything Cameron knows how to push the envelope. Don't trust IMDB too much if it's a project in development or preproduction. The classic example is when the the T3 entry listed both ILM and DD working on it. And JP4 has been listed for quite a while (as far as I know still in development, nothing certain). If it can't list a Supe, take it with a grain of salt. Besides some of the work for 2009 is just being bid at this time. The writers strike makes it more uncertain.

    Checking the imdb listing, yeah it's mostly accurate except for JP4 and Red Tails as far as I know, though I have to get back in the game.

    And concerning Transformers 2: Will ILM still be on board for the sequel? I mean, now that Digital Domain is owned by Michael Bay (is it right he could not kick ILM away due to legal issues and since they were hired before he bought DD), will ILM or DD be the main VFX-house on the sequel???


    Anybody's guess at this time, nothing is certain. It could turn out that ILM will not be involved at all. My gut feeling is DD will be the main provider. Witness the Narnia sequel, almost no one from the original film is involved in the VFX of Prince Caspian.

    There might have been a way to get ILM out of the 1st Transformers, but: it could have been too expensive and unfeasible since production was well underway when Bay became one of the owners of DD. That's what renegotiating is for ;-). There have been some similar circumstances before, lie when Universal canceled the animated Frankenstein (I think Hulk came out of that), and also ILM was involved in Next originally before Tamahori's run in with the law.
     
  11. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
    The Oscar Nominations Are Revealed!

    The Golden Compass:
    Michael Fink, Bill Westenhofer, Ben Morris and Trevor Wood

    Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End:
    John Knoll, Hal Hickel, Charles Gibson and John Frazier

    Transformers:
    Scott Farrar, Scott Benza, Russell Earl and John Frazier

    http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=21098219-a58e-4870-8205-964816878dd9&page=2

    I'm surprised The Golden Compass made the cut.
     
  12. Kaero_Shan

    Kaero_Shan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Yeahhhhhhh

    Everything proceeds as I have forseen!

     
  13. Mike-Sunrider

    Mike-Sunrider Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2003
    WETA is better at the whole motion-cap thing I guess. (Gollum, King Kong) whereas ILM has an overall better package. All the ILM special Effects are usually great whereas you won't be able to fool me that CG in Lotr and King Kong were overall better.

    And I have a feeling that ILM's services are a little bit cheaper for their services because the movies with the cheaper budget usually employ ILM.

    So please keep in mind that both Director and Budget come in play when making special effects for a movie.
     
  14. HanSolo29

    HanSolo29 RPF/SWC/Fan Art Manager & Bill Pullman Connoisseur star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2001
    No surprises in terms of the nominations. I was watching Transformers last night for the first time since I saw it in theaters and I completely forgot that it was such a good movie. And of course, the special effects blew my mind, so obviously I'm gonna be rooting for that.
     
  15. malducin

    malducin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    WETA is better at the whole motion-cap thing I guess. (Gollum, King Kong) whereas ILM has an overall better package.


    Well that's more a matter of perception. Because Gollum was so notable it attracted quite a bit of attention to the whole mocap thing. Which is not the whole story since they still had to do quite a bit of cleanup and hand animation on him (and Kong). Also Weta is a full service facility.

    On the other hand ILM also does quite a bit of mocap, they have several large stages and they have continued to innovate with things like the iMocap used in the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels (Davy Jones and his crew, which also had quitea bit of procdural and hand animation).

    And I have a feeling that ILM's services are a little bit cheaper for their services because the movies with the cheaper budget usually employ ILM.


    Not really, they actually charge premium, in part because of name recognition and they also have to account for overhead. On the other hand they are one of the few facilities capable of handling the largest and most complex shows in any given year. And of course they also get quite a few 911 calls (some of them because producers initially thought ILM was too expensive).

    They do sometime work on small projects with minimal VFX budgets, in part because of the prestige it might bring (say a Woody Allen or Paul Anderson film), but also it helps have people employed between large projects. But in general cheap movies (the usual crop of action and comedies of the year) have cheaper effects by smaller companies, simply out of budgetary reasons.
     
  16. Jango10

    Jango10 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2002
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

    HOW THE HELL DID THE GOLDEN COMPASS WIN BEST VISUAL EFFECTS!?

    Once again the Academy proves its bias against ILM and Lucas.
     
  17. SaberJedi2

    SaberJedi2 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2007
    ^^ I could not agree more. Transformers was the most awe-inspiring, visually stunning film I have ever seen. I lost all respect (what little I had left) for the Academy after Transformers went 0 for 3.
     
  18. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
    What happened was that ILM's two nominations split the vote and The Golden Compass sneeked by to win.
     
  19. malducin

    malducin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    I don't think they split the vote. There was an explanation (Variety maybe?) and if you know the Academy voting rules and composition (all the membership votes) it does make more sense: voters didn't want to give it to a Bay film (most voter wouldn't even know ILM was involved or not) and the Pirates guys had their award from last year, so they voted for the more "serious" film, The Golden Compass.
     
  20. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Also a logical answer. I know Bay is not an Oscar worthy director but I thought Pearl Harbor did win a Oscar for Best Sound.
     
  21. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    I don't know, I think Golden Compass really did have the best effects of all the nominated movies. And in many regards, it really was the finest of the three movies, but it's essentially a family movie, and it turned out to be a huge hit overseas. Of course that the target demographics for films like Pirates and Transformers don't generally like family movies, even if they have great special effects.
     
  22. Jango10

    Jango10 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 22, 2002
    The bears in Golden Compass looked like the Coca-Cola bears. We had better effects 5 years ago in Return of the King.
     
  23. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

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    May 10, 2001
    There was a lot more to The Golden Compass than just bears. (And the bears were far from bad, in my opinion). But overall, The Golden Compass is the movie that came closest (of all of this year's nominees) to bring back the old "Star Wars" feeling for me, in terms of watching a totally fictional universe that was unique in its own way and yet had some familiar elements to it. I'm not saying it was exactly the same as watching the first Star Wars in 1977, I'm just saying it came a lot closer for me than either of the Pirates sequels and most certainly way closer than Transformers.

    But, again, it is essentially a family movie, it's not really the kind of movie I would expect most teenagers and especially young males to enjoy.
     
  24. Jango10

    Jango10 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2002
    I'm not talking about the quality of the film at all. No where did I say that. I haven't even seen the film. I've seen trailers, clips, and the clip that was sent to the Academy. I cannot comprehend how Golden Compass had better effects than both Pirates and Transformers.
     
  25. malducin

    malducin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Because the Oscar is not about the "best" effects per se (however you define that). It sometimes comes to what the whole Academy membership likes best. Take 2000, how many Academy members do you think watched Hollow Man? And then you had the option between Perfect Storm and Gladiator...
     
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