Non-Star Wars fan fic forum - Forums now open!

We are basing this on the owner's previous answer to the question of canon SW slash. He said no to that, so we're pretty sure he'll say no to this as well. By all mean, we can ask him, but we're pretty positive what the answer will be.

Besides, even if he said yes, you know how much more complaining people will do if slash was allowed in non-SW fan fiction but not in SW FF? It's easier/better to just say a flat-out "no" to both.

 

I would think the reluctance of them asking the leaders (if they have not already done so) would be because they know the answer.

On the issue of slash, I think that should be out of the question. I mean, this is a PG rated board, and I don't think slash falls under that category.

 

I'd really appreciate it if he was asked. It's not just for me and the other writers, but also because the mods can then say 'we're sorry, but we did try'.

I know I'd do a lot less complaining if it was allowed in the non-SW section, I'm opposed to people writing slash about characters that aren't canonically gay or bi and there's only one gay couple in SW canon. I'd just be happy to be able to post same-sex relationship stuff at all, it might not be SW but at least it'd be here where all my friends are.

 

It's actually a PG rated board.

 

Oh... I had thought that since RotS was rated PG-13 this was too. My apologies.

EDIT: Wait a minute...I don't know what you're talking about.

 

I'd say it's more along G, at times. You can get banned here for posting a picture of an image that implies an ACRONYM that implies a mild expletive. That ain't PG. But anyways, ol Captain Wise doesn't seem to be the sort of person who is capable of changing his mind .

 

Moosemouse - you have a PM.....

Really, the rules are what the rules are, and if it hasn't been budged more than a few respectable inches in the last 6 years, I don't foresee a huge change in the near future because a new group has taken up arms....


However, there are alternatives to fighting....

 

Easier, yes. Better? Not necessarily. You're already setting up two tiers of what is or is not allowed. "If she can write her story with Buffy Summers, Vampire Slayer, why can't I do one with Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter?" The answer is that Anita's creator said no. In this case, the answer's basically the same; you can't have SW slash because George Lucas said no. And that really was an announcement from on high that cannot be argued.

And there's a big difference between thinking you know the answer because you asked a similar (but not the same) question a year ago are extrapolating from that, and being sure you know the answer because you have free and open discussion and have owner input on this board already.

 

I don't know, I'm getting the impression that some people are mistaking homosexual characters and relationships for porn. I'm not saying we should be able to post explicit raunchy sex stories (heterosexual or homosexual), I just don't see the harm in having two characters in a relationship who happen to be of the same sex. I don't get it.

We absolutely will not allow the letter f in any form... ever ever... but homophobia is okay?

The hell?

 

That's my other worry at this point, that by the time someone asks, it'll be a flippant question geared more to get an answer to shut us up. I remember back in the days of the interspecies issue and the focus group -- if you think we're heated now, you should've seen us then -- the statement that came down was that we couldn't have human/eopie fic, which had never been what anyone had proposed.

 

This was the very thing that started one of the biggest dust up in fan fiction itself - many people can't separate the idea that characters could be homosexual without the whole story revolving around which character was doing what to whom.

Thankfully, you can find find characters in stories (OC's - no Luke/Han lurv or the like) that follow the loosely written rules for said same.

One of the greatest fan fic mod teams we've had in the 6 years I've been here has seen to that (namely Feely, Oqi and Mamma Vader).

Hell, I know of a couple stories that actually won 'awards' that had *gasp* SSR in them...

 

Im not sure why this is such a big deal. It's not like the majority of fics written are the raunchy ones or the ones with homosexual relationships in it. I mean let's take it with baby steps here. First off, be grateful that there still are mods who actually do something to improve these boards. Kudos to Nat and all the others who are willing to give this a shot.

And IF the new forum take off, shows promise and generates traffic, then there is a good argument to take to Phil and argue for less strict rules here. And it is far more likely that you can convince him at that point than when you try it now. As trying it right now will most likely lead to nowhere.

 

Sticking to the subject, I would also like there to be a non-SW forum. I may not reply a lot since I tend to lurk more than post. Still-I think it's a grand idea.

 

(reposted from YJCC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason we were given by the site owners (back in the day) as to why slash was forbidden is that it was a directive from LucasFilm, in that they wanted their characters protected somewhat and did not want people basically messing with those Star Wars characters in a way LucasFilm did not agree with.

If my memory serves me correctly above (and I'm pretty sure it does), it might be worth bearing in mind that the above reason from the site owners holds no water at all* in a non-SW Fan Fic forum.




* Except Indy Jones, Willow, THX-1138, American Graffiti and... Howard the Duck.

 

Reposted reply to your JCC post, JP...

It's still a double standard, and a thin one at that.

The directive from Lucas is no "Luke/Han Obi/Qui in love" - basicly, Luke is not gay (mind you, George has ALSO declared that Luke never married, that would kill off a whole boatload of fics right there.... 90% of "Beyond the Saga" in a heartbeat.)

There are gay characters in the EU, and explicit sexuality isn't allowed in fan fic period. The whole "No 'slash' (which to me denotes explicit SSR) is just an archaic thinly disguised way of saying 'No Sam sex relationships for fan fic' although it's permitted everywhere else on the JCF....

 

Just compiled a list of voices of support from NYCg's threads in several forums...

JCers Who Have Expressed Positive Support

Reynar_Tedros
darh_nemesis
NYCitygurl
ApolloSmileGirl
Coruscant
JediNemesis
Grand_Admiral_Grant
Healer_Leona
Sinrebirth
Jetta
Pallas-Athena
Gabri_Jade
Juliet316
DarthIshtar
Commander-DWH
Jinngerbread
mrjop2
Corellian_Ale
Idrelle_MIcovani
RX_Sith
ardavenport
Dana-Skywalker
dianethx
LilyHobbitJedi
Jedi Trace
jedi_of_ennth
Jade_Pilot
JadeSolo
KELIA
Exeter
obaona
thesporkbewithyou
CmdrMitthrawnuruodo
Yuul_Shamar
Penguinator-176
Jango10
Mitth_Fisto
Cobranaconda
darth-sinister
JediANGELA
The Musical Jedi
-RebelScum-
FlareStorm
Mudball
Onoto
Trimaj
darth_gersh
Lord_Riven


That's a lot of people who would be using it. The part of the list starting with Pallas-Athena and ending with thesporkbewithyou are those who voiced support from FF Resource.

 

Oh, I would totally use it--I've got more non-SW fic than SW fic. It's also good to hear that Lazy's search feature has made indexing unnecessary. That makes a multi-fandom forum 80% more feasable right there.

On the subject of SSR fics, there seems to be a lot of variation in what people know about them, and what they want regarding them.

One user asked me today what "slash" was, and plenty of people in JCC have questions, so this is all the information I've got about slash at TFN. In Q & A format only partly because I've heard the debate so many times I can have it with myself by now.

What is slash?

Fanfiction that involves a romantic or sexual relationship between people of the same sex. The word "slash" is actually a nonspecific term many people associate with porn. Some people prefer the term "SSR fic" or "same-sex relationship fic," since it doesn't have the same NC-17 connotations as "slash."

What kind of same-sex-whatevers are allowed here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, other mods, but I believe the rules below affect the following forums:

Fanfiction
Role-Playing Forum
Non-Star Wars Role-Playing Forum
Fan Art
(I've never seen Fan Films on the list, but I expect it's included.)

What's Allowed In These Forums

Indirect references to same-sex relationships are allowed between original characters, and between characters who are homosexual in canon. Oqidaun's "Thursdays With My Father" has been mentioned several times as a good example of how "indirect references" work in Fanfic.

What's Not Allowed In These Forums

Explicit references to same-sex relationships are not allowed between any characters. This includes most common expressions of "being in love;" it's not restricted to sex scenes. (Heterosexual couples can't be shown having sex either.)

All canon characters are assumed to be exclusively heterosexual, unless there is officially-released material that says otherwise. They cannot be written into same-sex relationships, even obliquely.

Is there any reason to expect that the same rules that govern SSR now would apply to a Non-SW Fanfic forum?

Well, yes. They currently apply to crossover fics in Fanfic, and AFAIK the rules also apply to the Non-SW Role-Playing Forum. Star Wars is not singled out by the slash rule.

When was the last time anybody asked the owners if the rule could ever change?

The last time I know about was in July of last year, after "Sacrifice" came out. The specific question was about whether canonically homosexual characters could be now be "openly" homosexual in Fanfic. The owners responded that they wanted the current no-slash rule to remain in place. Yes, they know about the gay Mandalorians. The message basically said that while Karen Traviss had made the choice to include open homosexuality in her novel, Phil and Josh wanted to make a different choice for TFN.

Why did they make that decision?

I don't know the exact reasoning. All I can say is that it fits in with other, similar decisions in the past, and that the reasons given are usually A) LFL doesn't like slash and B) the owners want the site to be "family friendly."

Obviously, people can have differing definitions of "family friendly." One of my sisters is a lesbian, and I think she's quite friendly. So's her girlfriend. However, I don't own the site, so I don't get to have the final word about the rules. The owners do.

Could we ask them again, since a Non-SW Fanfic Forum is new?

Yes, we could. However, if the change in the EU didn't bring about a change in TFN policy, I don't really see a new forum making any difference.

The e-mail that was sent out 10 months ago was very clear and respectful and polite. The response was also clear, respectful and polite. Even if the Star Wars franchise includes open homosexuality, the owners do not want it in fan works on this site.

Anyt

 

I got listed! W00t

Slightly off topic, sorry. But everyone keeps mentioning that fic by oqi. Is there any way we could get that posted in the FF FAQ like the snippets of sex and violence are?

 

Having written slash fic for other places before none of what I wrote was sexualised in anyway. In fact, there is more sexualised stuff going on between the hetero couples in some fics etc than you expect from a PG movie. I guess slashfic gets the reputation as more raunchy because a lot of the authors who get notoriety are the ones who do the explicit guy-on-guy fanfic stuff. That's my impression anyway. So when people say 'slash' the automatic reaction is 'porn!'.

It's the reputation that's the problem, I think, not the fact that people want to write about established 'canon' SSR (Willow/Tara for example, which is a sweet, romantic relationship, even if they go at it like bunnies behind closed doors).


But! And this is a big but (I cannot lie ); the owners have said no to SSR. On any level. Because it's a PG/family friendly issue. I don't like it, and I'm all for asking again, but I can predict the answer.

I support the forming of a NSWFF forum, absolutely. I'm willing to help work on the issues that surround it too.

Just my 2 coppers.

 

I wouldn't use it personally, I just think if it's wanted, it should be allowed.

Though, I do disagree with posting threads in several forums asking for support.

 

Again, I agree with Juli. She didn't need to spam boardwide in order to get a good discussion going regarding The Arena... and of course, the board was made.

 

I think Ophelia's post highlighted something really important, and that's that most people associate 'slash' with 'porn', which is why I'm hesitant to use that word. SSR does seem like a much more appropriate term for use in this context. If I were to write an SSR fic the most it would include is hugs, cuddles, maybe a brief kiss at worst, and I've seen a lot more than that in fics here and they've been allowed. You can write SSR fics that are PG rated, and I'd only write similar fics to what I've written before, all of which have been fine so far.

I am only in favour of writing SSR fics featuring canonically gay characters though, such as Willow/Tara. I am opposed to writing SSR fics with characters that are canonically straight, unless they just feature in it and aren't in the SSR, eg a Willow/Tara fic that features Buffy as an extra character would be OK but a Xander/Giles would not.