Non-Star Wars fan fic forum - Forums now open!

Discussion in 'Communications' started by NYCitygurl, May 2, 2008.

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  1. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Are you simply skimming these threads, or flat out ignoring my questions?

    Why is it that this subject

    A)Warranted multiple threads, in multiple forums(mostly not related to FaniFic in any way, for support.

    B)Has obviously been ignored, because the slash issue seems to be at the center of whether or not a majority of the users you've asked outside of Fanfic would support this.

    C)Deserves more widespread attention than other forum proposals have in the past, I.E. keeping a central proposal in Comms which is the forum intended for such discussion.


    Make a link in FanFic for the FanFic users to come in here and explain why a new forum like this is necessary, because it seriously sounds like this suggestion is opening a bigger can of worms than is really needed.



  2. PrincessKenobi New Films Manager of DOOM

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 6
    Okay, but seriously why do we need a Non-Star Wars fan fic forum? Has it escaped some of our minds that this is a Star Wars message board? People are not going to be coming here looking for Lost Fan Fic or Indy Fan Fic. They'll go else where for that. So why create another useless board that won't get used.

    I mean it sounds awesome to those who like it right now. But a year from now it's just going to be collecting dust and maybe getting one or 2 posts a day. And no offense but I think that's a waste of board space. And I really think we should be focusing on a bigger issue at hand, which is ways to improve the posting on the forums we already have.

    While I'm not going to knock fan fic, I really see it having no place on here. If it's not on the main page of theforce.net it really doesn't belong here.

    ~PK~
  3. Jaina_and_Jag Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2003
    star 5
    You might want to clear up what you're saying there. That could be misconstrued badly. If you're talking about all fanfic (including SW) you might have just opened a HUGE can of worms. If you're talking about fanfic other than SW then you might want to specify that. ;)

    And I honestly don't see a problem with having a non-Star Wars fanfic forum. There are other boards that are non-Star Wars on here, so having a fanfic one makes as much sense as those do.
  4. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Then the pros and cons should be discussed by the overall community in Comms, not spread all over the site.
  5. Pallas-Athena TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    Wow. Well, I'm not going to get too offended. Just to say that the Archive does have a section of tf.n (I work there). Updates to that archive used to be posted on our section of the main site as well (it's here), which in turn popped up on the main page (and the news box at the bottom of the JC). The only reason it's no longer updated is that the TFN staffer that did the updates is no longer working there. Control was never given to us because of a technical oversight. Not out of any malice towards fanfic. Please check your facts before making such statements.
  6. obaona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 4
    B)Has obviously been ignored, because the slash issue seems to be at the center of whether or not a majority of the users you've asked outside of Fanfic would support this.

    Sorry, I had to address this. According to your logic, we should also shut down SW fanfic, since most users outside of fanfic don't support the slash policy. For that matter, a lot of users inside fanfic don't support the slash policy. Yet they choose to post here because they like the atmosphere and community, and I see no reason why a non-SW fanfic board would be different in that respect - the JC doesn't have to offer slash to be a great community.
  7. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Perhaps you should read closer the context of the point that I was trying to make.

    My argument is that if there is seriously a demand for this new forum, that people need to group here to discuss it, because that is what Comms is for.

    The majority of the discussion has revolved around slash, not the pros and cons of making this possible new forum a reality.

    So, don't go off saying that I'm saying it shouldn't be allowed because of the slash issue. I'm merely pointing out that the topic has been the main focus by many of the users that have bothered to comment.

    Instead of bickering over what many here consider to be a stupid policy, and I'm sure it will remain policy, it should be discussed why this new forum should be open and how it would benefit the community as a whole.

    Nobody seems to want to do that, and as this idea has been put down before, than what's the point of bickering if the discussion isn't headed in a positive direction?
  8. obaona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 4
    My apologies for the misunderstanding of that point, then. However, why don't you PM the mod that posted this topic elsewhere, instead of derailing this thread with continual complaints about your question not being answered ... when that's not the topic of this thread. When you're complaining about the thread being derailed by the topic of slash. Hm.
  9. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Because a simple explanation would have sufficed, and the mod in question has continuously ignored my query. I'm not asking her why a banned user is banned. I'm not asking her something that needs to be concealed to pm. I'm asking her why it was necessary to start multiple threads, in multiple forums to push a new forum, when basically the same tactic would be unacceptable for a normal user.

    I'd be more than happy to create a general Comms thread based on the action, not the moderator if you'd prefer. Hm
  10. obaona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think it has as much to do with 'concealing' as much as avoiding drama and derailing threads. If you're that bothered by the mod's actions, well, there's a perfectly reasonable policy in place for handling it.

    On topic - I think a non-SW fanfic board would be a good thing. There's plenty of non-SW boards already here, a lot of which came to be without much objection. Why should fanfic be any different? Most of us are still SW fans at heart regardless, and I think that fanfic has handled other issues regarding content before fairly well (things have been running very smoothly for a while now), and will also do so in the new forum. :)

  11. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    It would be interesting to see how much actual active support there is for an alternate fan fic board - Perhaps a PM 'vote' conducted in Fan Fic Resource with the choices being "Yes, No or 'either way'. I for one don't get involved in fan fiction outside of Star Wars, but I'm not going to tell other people what they should and should not have a place for.

    And for the last time, as for the whole SSR thing - they are allowed under a very restrictive basis, and people are free to read or bypass them as they like.
  12. Persephone_Kore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2006
    star 4
    Huh. You know, "Fanfic" shows up twice on the front page of TheForce.net (one little rectangular section and one slot in the drop-down menu), but I can't find a link labeled "Totally off topic chitchat" anywhere. I guess we'd better get rid of the YJCC right away! [face_laugh]

    Okay, seriously, of course I don't support that. I'm a member of several sites and really don't spend much time in the purely social and RL-discussion areas of any of them -- I don't even spend that much time in the Fanfic social thread. *grin* I'm an introvert, what can I say? I talk to people plenty, but usually either on the topic I actually showed up for, or in smaller batches. Or both. But I could hardly fail to recognize that those areas are important to a lot of other members.

    I believe based on the beginning of her post that PrincessKenobi didn't actually mean to deny that Star Wars fanfic belonged here, only non-SW fanfic, but I'm surprised that someone with 24 of her last 25 posts in the YJCC -- where "the purpose of the JC Community is to discuss everything but Star Wars" -- would object to non-Star Wars topics, either on the grounds that they should not be here or that there isn't enough interest in them.

    Star Wars fanfic is a well-established part of the site, both the curated TheForce.net Fan Fiction Archive and the Fan Fiction section of the JC forums. Likewise, while I can understand if some people aren't fond of the idea, off-topic areas are firmly established. If we consider general socialization/discussion/play areas not explicitly devoted to Star Wars, well, the JC Community areas account for about 20% of the total posts here. Counting only areas devoted to specific non-Star Wars topics or activities, we have Non Star Wars Role Playing (about 34000 posts currently), Science Fiction and Fantasy (about 64000 total spread across two sections), and Sports (about 30000). None of them are down to one or two posts per day, incidentally, and they've been around for more than a year. Of course, they don't have as many daily posts as YJCC, but then they are much more narrowly focused.

    I can understand wanting to have some restraint in the addition of specifically non-SW areas, but it seems to me that it might be a couple years late to decide that we shouldn't make any of them.

    Non-SW Role Playing seems like the best analogy here, actually. It's defined by a type of activity, and presumably it's something of a spin-off of the same activity applied specifically to Star Wars. Now, considering it appears to have been around for... about 1/4 to 1/3 as long as the SW Role Playing forum, and it has about 1/12 as many posts. It appears to me that it's got enough interest to justify its existence -- certainly more than one or two posts per day, and that's after more than a year -- but it's hardly about to stage a site takeover. ;)

    I've seen people suggest, here and in Fanfic Resource, that the proposed non-Star Wars Fanfic area would either be a revitalizing influence or a serious threat to our identity as a Star Wars site, possibly by attracting a lot of people. I think this is overstating its power.

    Very few people are going to come here just for the NSWFF. Probably nobody. It doesn't matter how much word gets around -- we are a Star Wars site, and people are going to sign up if they think we look good as a Star Wars site. If they're looking for a multifandom site, they'll find a real multifandom site. If they're looking for a place to post Harry Potter fanfic, they'll pick one of the gazillions of Harry Potter sites. If they're looking for a sports forum, I bet they can find a sports forum. If they're Star Wars fans who also sometimes talk about sports or Tolkien, then maybe they'll sign up here. And if they sometimes write fanfic about other source materials, then the proposed new forum could be a bonus. For people with no connection or interest in the JC as a whole, though, it would be pointless compared to posting in a place dedicated to their other fand
  13. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Why not just allow non star wars fan fic in the current fan fic forum? Why is a separate forum necessary?
  14. Pallas-Athena TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    There are 3 forums already, separated by time period (before the movies, during the movies, and after). There's 5 if you count the resource forum and the old, mostly inactive original forum, which had to be abandoned a few years ago for the current separate forums because it was moving too fast.

    The forums are already too busy - there was talk about separating the movie time period forum (called "The Saga") because it too is starting to move awful quickly - there's no way they could make room for more, non-SW fic. Given their divisions, there is no logical way of incorporating non-SW into these forums to begin with.

    Fanfic is popular. For comparison:

    The Arena 549 (topics) / 30,419 (posts)
    The Amphitheatre 4,689 / 262,170

    Fanfic:
    Before the Saga 2,614 / 94,376
    The Saga 8,420 / 373,664
    Beyond the Saga 7,010 / 401,361
    Fan Fiction Resource 5,652 / 402,362
    Fan Fiction Stories--Classic JC Board (Reply-Only) 6,825 / 767,130

    Please stop acting like these forums aren't important just because you don't post in them.
  15. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Then stop neglecting the fact that there were two very vocal threads, in Comms, with users that actually participated in a discussion for why they supported and wanted the Amphitheater and the Arena forums to come about, before they were actually considered. I don't know about the Amphitheater, but it took several attempts for the Arena to be accepted. It also took an actual discussion in Comms for the pros and cons for both of them to be allowed.

    I could care less about slash, all I'm saying is it should be discussed in the appropriate forum, which is Comms. Is that really so hard to digest? The MS asks for feedback, though it seems a lot of the time they don't take it. Regardless, this has always been the forum to have discussions on what users think about proposals like like this. I don't see what the problem is.

    As for number crunching, that's whatever. Most, if not all of those forums have been around years longer than either the Amph or the Arena.

    Not to mention If we're going to get into a pissing contest here, I'm sure the YJCC has more posts than any of those. Who cares? That's not the point. It's not the issue. I've seen like maybe 5 people in here give any positive feedback on why they'd like a forum of this nature. That includes mods and archivists.

  16. Persephone_Kore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2006
    star 4
    The Arena may not be a wholly fair comparison since it's younger, but yes, the Star Wars Fanfic forums are already pretty busy and most non-SW fanfic is not going to fit terribly well into before, during, and after the movies. I'd be fine with having non-SW fic in a new board under the current Fan Fiction heading, but not in the existing sections. For organizational and administrative purposes it may end up being better off in its own section altogether.

    Basically, though, "Why don't we allow non-SW fanfic in the existing fanfic boards" is equivalent to asking why we don't just allow discussion of all non-Star Wars novels in the Literature forum. If you support that proposal, well, I don't suppose I can really convince you. :)

    (I tried to find an example related to one of your favorite forums, but I went back before the beginning of the month and couldn't find any posts of yours in any of the forums for Star Wars topics, just Comms, YJCC, and Amphitheatre. Sorry if I missed anything. Proposing a merger of the JCC and Star Wars Community didn't seem to have quite the same effect.)
  17. Pallas-Athena TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    There have been user-created topics about a non-SW fanfic forum for years. They were shot down by the mods repeatedly and we accepted their decision at the time. The mods created the topic this time around because they already knew the fanfic user-base had asked for it, and they were finally ready to start seriously considering it.
  18. obaona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 4
    The fact is, ApolloSmileGirl, unlike other boards, fanfic essentially has it's own version of comms, and so many fanfic users don't bother to come here, or don't post here. Anything regarding fanfic has always occurred in fanfiction resource, with sometimes a mirror thread here. The thread in fanfiction resource has had a lot of support for this idea, and there has been discussion regarding the pros and cons, and possible problems. And in my opinion, that's what counts - because fanfic users are the only ones going to be affected (or even aware of, judging by how much people in this thread know about fanfic) by this expansion.

    And ditto what Pallas-Athena said. :p
  19. Gabri_Jade VIP

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2002
    star 5
    Atty's right; people in FanFic have been asking about the possibility of a forum like this for years. In this case, the mods themselves acted on a desire that they already knew existed and was widespread among the relevant userbase, specifically because those users had repeatedly asked for it. I'll admit, I only read and write SW fanfiction. If this new forum is created, I won't use it. But there are plenty of others in our FanFic community who will, and who have expressed support for such an idea for quite some time now. I don't see what's inappropriate about moderators being in touch with the userbase and proactive about their interests.
  20. KELIA Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2005
    star 6
    There are some great points being discussed here and I just thought I?d throw my two cents worth in.

    I like the idea of a Non SW forum because I know there are a lot of writers who like/love writing different fan fics and The Force.Net is hands down the best site for positive, constructive feedback. I know there are other sites out there but they are not as well run, or get as much feedback and as a writer myself, a big motivator for me to write is the feedback.

    Anyone who isn?t interested in non SW fics is under no obligation to visit the board or read the fics. They can just ignore it?s existence. And those of us who are interested will be able to enjoy writing and reading other fan fics.

    That?s just MHO. :)

  21. JediNemesis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    To repost what I said in the FF Resource thread:

    Also, out of interest, I went through the thread in Resource and counted up replies. So far, by my count, we have a total of 45 fanficcers in support/indifference and 4 in opposition. I would assume that those who saw the thread and haven't posted have no strong feelings on the issue either way.
  22. BrentusofGath Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2005
    star 4
    I'm all for a new, nonSW fanfic board, just like I said over in the FF Resource thread. I think this place is a much nicer community than other boards and very well run and maintained, so other franchises will fit in in the same manner in my opinion.
  23. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    If FanFic is such a tightknit community, and you basically have your own version of Comms(and believe me, I certainly don't have a problem with that), than why go to other forums like the YJCC and Amph looking for support? I can understand making a thread in here, but why other forums that aren't considered part of that tightknit community by it's users? I'd imagine anyone that wants this new forum, that frequents either the YJCC or the Amphitheater would already be aware of this proposal if they visited Fanfiction on any regular basis.

    My point is, why was a cross promotion allowed in this case, when it wouldn't have been allowed in others? If whomever got the ball rolling on the Amphitheater, Senate, Arena, The Science Fiction and Fantasy forums, basically anything not having to do with Star Wars(like a NSWFF forum) had made threads in every fanfiction forum, would they not have been locked and redirected here?

    Simple question, I've asked it more than once, and I'll keep asking it until someone answers.

  24. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    As I said before, I made it in forums that could be affected (Fanfic, SFF, Amph, and RPG) because they have prolific users and because if this gets reated, fandom discussion might go up. I posted in JCC because it has the greatest number of users. Most of the people affected wouldn't have seen it in Comms. I had permission from the forum mods and the head admin.

    Back on topic - I don't think it'll attract a bunch of new users. I think it will, however, be a great benefit to fanfic here. Current users who explore in other fandoms will have a reason to stick around, and maybe some old fanfic users who have left for other fandoms will come back. However, the fanfic boards are (as a group) one of the biggest areas on the boards. There are a ton of Star Wars fics. Putting new fandoms in there will be a mess, which is why this would get its own board.
  25. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    For the record, I really don't want it to come across like I have anything against a new forum of this nature, because I don't. Anything that raises board traffic and keeps the boards thriving, I'm all for. If it takes NSW forums, regardless of what the forum is dedicated to, to keep users and possibly attract new ones then that's something that the community as a whole will have to accept.

    As I said, I do disagree with the way that it was promoted, but since I've made that clear I'll leave it at that.
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