CT "Noooo" in Return of the Jedi

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Charlie512, May 23, 2013.

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  1. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    If they need an Obi-Wan force ghost in the ST, they can't get Guiness anymore can they? McGregor already expressed interest in being in the ST. OMG- it really could happen. To coin a phrase "Noooooooooooooo!!!!"
    Last edited by Mr. K, Jul 10, 2013
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  2. LordThanatos Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2013
    star 1

    I partially disagree. The "NOO" in ROTJ is one of the worst changes made, yes. But it is redeemed by the young Anakin force ghost change. It's the best change made in my opinion and even brought tears to my eyes. It was actually a character I could relate to, as opposed to Shaw being Anakin. After watching the prequels it makes more sense to have a younger Anakin.

    They wouldn't change Alec's force ghost to Ewan... Obi-Wan never ceased to be Obi-Wan. Unlike Anakin, who died when he became Vader.
    Last edited by LordThanatos, Oct 15, 2013
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  3. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    It certainly ruined the feel of it.
  4. Dinos4Ever Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2013
    star 2
    It was another one of Lucas' unnecessary edits to the OT. I personally found it unfortunately reminiscent to Anakin's whinier moments in the PT, like he was a child stomping his feet and whimpering "No! No! No! No!"
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  5. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 2
    I really have no problem with it to be honest... was it needed... No... Does it ruin my viewing pleasure though... absolutely not
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  6. Skywalker Thing Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2013
    It was completely unnecessary.
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  7. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    the thing about it that bothers me these days is, if you're going to bring JEJ in to record "NO. NOooooooooo"
    Can't you also pay him to record, "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival"?
    Whoever did that dialogue never had Vader's voice down all that good.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Unless I missed something, that was Jones. He originally recorded that line in 1977, for a scene that was cut where Vader is shown walking down a corridor, on his way to the Devastator. Vader wasn't angry in that scene and Jones played it that way, compared to the menace in TESB, where he said, "Bring me my ship".
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  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Not every single detail. But a good portion were. In the case of Mos Eisley, Lucas talked about wanting it to be a bustling spaceport but didn't have enough money to make it look bigger. The other details like the Swoop Bike and the Ronto were just additions to make the spaceport more busy, just like he did with Mos Espa. The Jabba scenes did retain some of the same dialogue, but also added new stuff such as Han convincing Jabba to go along with him on this deal and Jabba warning him not to screw this up. The new material is what makes it less redundant.

    I like seeing the Wampa. Having Cloud City look as it does gives it a nice parallel to Coruscant's buildings. The larger celebration was already in Lucas's mind way back when.

    I didn't laugh. No one laughed when I saw it in theaters each time in 05. Just like no one laughed when Anakin was having his nightmare in AOTC.

    Luke was 24 in ROTJ and Anakin was 22 ROTS. As to why, as Lucas said, it is Anakin as he was before he became evil. Shaw's physical form represented the damage caused by his evil actions. Hayden represents the good man that he was. It is his soul, his true self being freed from the evil that had surrounded him.

    You act as if Luke's an idiot. He'd know that was his father from before he went back.

    Why? They're the ones who helped him to achieve this form.
    Boba has to sound like his father, since all the other clones sounded like him. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise. The same way that Nolan North voiced Superboy and Superman in "Young Justice" and Christopher Barnes did all of Spider-Man's clones in the 90's series.

    Depends on which changes are talked about. Certain ones were done because Lucas was either fulfilling his idea of what he wanted, matching up to the other films, or was adding it because he decided to do so. In terms of the "NOOO" in ROTJ, this is the same man who wanted the Death Star II to be in it and blown up, to make sure that the younger audiences got that the Empire was down and out for good. So obviously, he has a strong opinion about making it obvious.

    Anakin was a good man, whose only crime was losing control one time before he went bad. He was not evil from the get go. He was still struggling with doing the right thing throughout until he turns and begins to believe the crap that he's spewing. Even after killing the Tuskens, Anakin was still a good man and did his level best to try and be that good man. It is only through what happens in ROTS, with Palpatine's manipulations and Anakin's fears, that he starts to go bad. He cannot make amends for his crimes, but he can be the good man that he was once before.
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  10. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    The thing that really bugs me about changing Boba Fett's voice is that it wasn't done for any stormtroopers. Lucas should have either gone all the way with the clone-consistency thing, or left all the original voices alone, not split the difference.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Oct 16, 2013
  11. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    That might explain it. Vader's voices in ANH and TESB always sounded like it was run through two different filters.
    But because they were two different movies, I never thought much of it. Now, though, when you have a vocal track
    from one movie, and stick it in the other, it's kind of jarring to me.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    According to Pablo Hidalgo, regarding the new animated series, Lucas had decided that the Stormtroopers of the OT weren't clones. This was in his notes and stuff, which he was using as a basis for formulating this series backstory. That's why Lucas didn't change them for the OT boxset in 04 and for 2011 Saga boxset.

    Lucas switched out the line because he was showing Vader walking to the Lambda class shuttle and thus the original TESB line wouldn't work. So he recycled old dialogue and then as you know, there's the flight from Cloud City to the Executor. The landing bay was taken from ROTJ, with an alternate take for Vader's walking down the ramp.
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I'm told he put Jango bumping his head on Slave 1 in, precisely as a hint that the head-bumping stormtrooper in ANH was a Jango clone.

    I'm OK with "Some are clones, but not all- maybe not even most"
  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah. Considering how many clone infants/fetuses we see on Kamino in AOTC, plus the probability of them just having started up a new batch, there's got to be a number of them running around during the rebellion.





    - But why would Imperial troops want to slaughter jawas?
    - They are totally obedient, taking any order without question.

    /LM
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    True, but they still age quickly even after leaving Kamino. That's why there isn't many of them.
  16. Yondo Kuromu Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2013
    star 1
    That was very unnecessary. The acting already showed he's conflicted and adding that phrase just ruined the moment. It broke my back from buy the Blu-ray. If Disney is smart, keep all those SE changes, just have Han shot first and Jabba's scene removed in ANH, Luke's scream removed in TESB, and Vader didn't yell "NO" and restore Sebastian Shaw as a Force Ghost in ROTJ.
    Sometimes I wonder if George Lucas is saying "**** you, that's why" to the hardcore fanboys by inserting Jar Jar in AOTC which he smiled at the camera like saying "Hey guys, I'm still here, watcha gonna do about it?" and the following pic describes it all. He doesn't care much about what the fans think about him, look at what he's wearing:
    [IMG]
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Why should he care about a bunch of whiny fanboys? They're not the only source of income when it came to the Saga. As to Disney, they'll the leave the 2011 versions alone. They might do a restoration of the 1993 THX editions, but that's probably about as far as they'll go. As to Jar Jar, he was included in AOTC, because there was a story to tell with him. He and the droids had a small part in ROTS, because that film was going to be dark and serious, which excluded the three of them from having a large part in the film.
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  18. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Ha! I love that picture of Lucas in the "Han Shot First" shirt. The guy's clearly got a sense of humor.

    The way I see it, Lucas is amused by how serious some people take these films. One minor change has created an outburst in the fan community. He's not trolling, he just wants his version to be the one most people see. I don't like a lot of changes, but in the grand scheme of things, it's still the same film. I not going to boycott a release because a few seconds have been altered.
  19. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    "Boycott" is kind of an exaggerated term, isn't it?

    And in this case, it's not just "a few seconds" - it's the climax of the trilogy, and indeed the entire Saga if you subscribe to the "Tragedy of Darth Vader" view. It's one thing to see people flipping out over sandtroopers on dewbacks, but this scene is kind of a big deal.
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  20. Yondo Kuromu Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2013
    star 1
    Yeah, I know right? Why should he care about the fans who brought him to what he is now because of the original source material? It's like the Mona Lisa, if Leonardo Davinci was still alive today, he has all the rights to edit the portrait and turn Mona Lisa into his original vision, and the rest of the society who was impacted by that art has no right to say anything about it because Leonardo Davinci is the original source material.
  21. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    See, there's multiple perspectives on this; there's the hardcore fans and the casual viewers. Not to insult your strong feelings on this change, but someone who isn't really dedicated to Star Wars wouldn't care one way or another.

    Though yes, it is important to listen to the fans (they help keep the saga alive); this actually got Luke's scream in ESB reverted in 2004. Who knows if they'll actually revert any others.
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    I've said that for years, but you'll never be able to convince some fans. That's how gung-ho they are about it and that's putting it nicely and within the TOS of this forum. If Lucas was really serious, it wouldn't be a shirt of Han holding a blaster and the shirt says, "Han Shot First". It'd be Han Solo flipping the bird and saying, "Greedo Shot First, *******!"
    You haven't seen all the vitriol that has gone on over the years, across multiple message boards. There have been those that boycotted buying any new product, until Lucas puts out the THX versions in full restored glory. Likewise, there were those who wouldn't even watch the ones that they had, legally or otherwise, because they had gotten sick of what Lucas said, or did. Whether those ones were at all honest or not, is an entirely different matter.


    It still doesn't really change anything. The impact is still there with or without it. Lucas just felt that it was something worth adding. The scream in the 97 version of TESB, I don't think it was changed for the 04 version because fans complained. If anything, Lucas just agreed it wasn't working, after the fact.
    But not all "Star Wars" fans are that upset over the SE's and the PT. Only a small contingent online give two ***** about the changes. They can voice their opinions, but that doesn't make them any more valid than the opinions of those who hate the films all together and never liked them once. As an artist with creative control over his product, he should stand behind his own decisions and not bow down to people who have no rights whatsoever with his product. They have the right to own it or not, and the right to complain. But they do not have the right to think that they know better than him. Much less any artist.
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  23. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't agree with this statement in particular. In fact, movie critics are paid to think that they know better than the artist.
    I don't get paid to say whether or not I liked a movie, but as a fan, I have the right to think a movie would be better if the artist did something differently. Then
    I have the right to not like that movie based on that opinion. What no one has, including the artist, is the ability to turn opinion into fact, which must be accepted in universal terms.
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  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Critics are ******** who are just stating their opinion for money and attention. If anyone paid attention to critics, Lucas would have never gotten to where he was. Much less some of the truly awful filmmakers who wound up doing well, despite what critics think.


    Why? Why doesn't the artist have the right to turn his opinion into fact? Where is this a universal law? Who came up with it and why does it need to be adhered to?
  25. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    This statement can't be true. Not all critics believe that Lucas was a bad filmaker. In fact, very prominent critics were very pro-Lucas.

    To one degree or another, everyone who decides to spend their money on a piece of art is a critic.

    I can say, I don't like Howard the Duck. If Lucas likes it, then his opinion is nothing but an opinion, and isn't based in fact, because he can't do anything to make me like it at this point.
    Anytime an artist creates art, and then turns it out to the public, he is asking for their judgement. Just because Lucas got rich with Star Wars, does not mean that the opinion of the public
    is all of a sudden negated every time he makes a movie, or makes changes to a movie.

    If artist were allowed to determine fact in this case, there would be no cinematic failures.
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Oct 20, 2013
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