CT "Noooo" in Return of the Jedi

No, you're right. But Pauline Kael really hated the OT and took every opportunity to bash it. However my point is, that if every critic was truly listened to and adhered to, no one would make it in Hollywood.

This is true, but only more so because of the internet which has become the breeding ground for amateur critics. Before then, there were opinions to be sure, but there was a lack of a forum for uniting them.

Of course not. The public can say what they want. That is their right. What is not their right is demanding it be a certain way, because they don't like it. Or thinking that he owes them. They can voice that opinion, but expecting a reality is another matter all together.

 

I'll agree with all that. None of us has any choice but to deal with the opinions of others on public forums, or we can just decide that public forums aren't for us. I see having at least two different perspectives in any discussion as a good thing. I don't look at the two different opinions in this thread as something that would detract me from the forum. In fact, other people's opinions, including yours, in all the various topics is why I keep returning. I wouldn't worry about people making too many demands about the changes anymore. People might have wishful thinking, and hopes and dreams on this particular subject, but most of them know that changing the movies back to the way they were is unlikely for the time being. And as for the people who continue to make demands, rest assured, Lucas and Disney are listening to them, but not all that closely.

 

I've been unable to take "NOOOOOOs" seriously for nearly a decade now. I literally cringe whenever I hear one. So when one is added into the absolutely pivotal moment of the series, I think I have a right to say that it diminishes the impact for me.

Now, you can feel differently about it. But don't try and tell me what it does or does not change.

 

What it changes for you, is your business. But to say that overall, that it would for everyone, then that should be objected to.

 

Isn't that exactly what you're doing, though? Saying that it only makes a difference to a hardcore minority of fans?

 

I am aware of the irony. Though it is often the same set of people that complain about any change made, which is why I pointed out that they are consistent. We never really get to hear a large, majority consensus on the changes.

 

Yeah, that's true.

 

This thread is hilarious

 

You never saw the Artoo is secretly a spy for Darth Sidious debate.

 

Give me a link

 

wait... WHAT!!!!!???????

 

Really? Where was this?

 

This was back in the ROTS Spoilers Allowed thread, in 2003. It ran through 2005. I had a big old debate with one poster, who had this theory that Artoo had a camera which recorded Anakin's actions and thus Palpatine knew all about it. He even said that when Threepio put his hand on top of Artoo's head during the wedding at the end of AOTC, he inadvertently blocked Palpatine's view. I think he also claimed that Artoo was the one who ratted out that they were on Tatooine in TPM. I suspected that this poster was either serious, or a troll. That thread is long gone by now.

 

I think I vaguely remember that thread,

the one I remember the most fondly is the guy who was convinced that Palpatine did a "force "heh keh keh" on the invisible hand to lift up Kenobi to help out Dooku.

Back on topic though:

It was a useless change imo.

 

Just

 

the NOOOOOOO is worse than Greedo shooting first and just behind replacing Shaw.

It doesn't fit. It doesn't sound like RotJ Vader. And why wouldn't Palpatine be like "wait, nooo, noooo what?" and look at Vader. It totally breaks the build as Vader is making his decision.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO way! That happened?

 

Yes, it did. There were all kinds of theories. Both serious and humorous. You stick around here long enough, you'll see some similar ones with the ST. More so after Episode VII comes out. That's when people will come up with ideas based on what is known.

 

Lol @ R2 as a spy. That's out there, makes me wonder if people even watched the OT. But generally on the thread topic I think the change was unnecessary. In defence of the change it does break up the long time Anakin/Vader takes to make his decision, but as has been said, why would Sidious not be tipped off that Vader was about to turn.

 

1. Sidious wasn't paying attention. He was too busy killing Luke to sense the conflict in Vader, during that time. Much less notice what was coming out of his mouth. Haven't you ever gotten so distracted that you didn't hear someone speaking. Or if you did, hear what they were saying exactly?

2. That theory also extended into the OT.

 

I intensely dislike the 'no's.' They ruin a little bit of the tingles I get when I watch that scene. I mean, what is the no for? Luke dying, or betraying the Emperor? I don't want these questions, I just want the magic of the original scene. I still get tingles when watching it, though.

 

The first "No" represents the good in Anakin finally awakening as he vocalizes that he was wrong and the second one is his saying that he will not let his son die.

 

I love this interpretation. It's almost like Anakin, for the first time, speaking directly to Vader. It just further reinforces the idea that they are two completely different characters.

 

Except they're NOT two completely different characters, unless one discards the Father Vader ret-con. It also needlessly complicates the story - "it" meaning, trying to have it both ways, i.e. they're separate and they're not at the same time. It's either one or the other; either Vader and Anakin are literally separate and the former killed the later, or Vader is just Anakin on the Dark Side.

 

In the eyes of the Force, they are indeed two different people.