[NRW] Leia's jedi status, Mara's attitude towards Leia and Vader, and the Mara/Shira connection.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sniper_Wolf, Jul 28, 2005.

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  1. Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    Nothing is bad enough to be insulting to Mace. I hope Palpatine had his remains buried in six feet of bantha poodoo.
  2. JacenSolo48 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 1
    Amen, Quiet_Mandalorian. I agree completely with what you wrote. I hope the utilitarian pseudo-Darksider got an appropriate blast of sithly lightning. God bless. -JacenSolo48
  3. Jedi_Matt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    oh shut the **** up shelley, the authors control the spotlight, not the characters

    This is a thread to discuss the possible connection between shira and mara, to explain some of their behaviour, this is not a Mara Jade bashing thread, so take your childish behaviour elsewhere
  4. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    No.

    Duh. I've never said otherwise.

    Childish behavior? You're the one who told me to "shut the **** up." I have every right to post in this thread, and if you don't like what I say, don't read it.

    Indeed she is. And it infuriates me to see that she's even identified as a "core, classic character." She wasn't, isn't, and never will be. She did not achieve Luke's leve of importance, or his power, or his knowledge, simply by marrying him.

    Yep. Luke is the head of the Jedi Order, not Mara. He has made mistakes, but so has she, so she needs to get over herself.

    IMO, Mara doesn't deserve to be included in that group.

    Oh, I have plenty of outrage against that brat.

    I'd slap her petulant little face until her button nose bled, myself.

    I don't absolve Jaina. I praise her for what she's accomplished, but I don't praise her for her snotty, mouthy, disrespectful 'tude.

    We all have the capacity to do good and to do evil. However, since Mara is by far less powerful than Anakin, I'd agree with you on the above points.
  5. Darklord07 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2005
    star 4
    I dont mean to be a little bugger buit whos shira?

    ps. hi shelley
    back at this again.lol
  6. BootlegVader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    Shira was the first red head, green eyed, Emperor's hand, ex lover of luke's. She was written in the great and wonderful marvel Star Wars comics line. You can read about her here [link=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/lumiya/eu.html][/link].
  7. Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    The seeming irony of that comment in light of your chosen avatar is simply too delicious for words.
  8. Darklord07 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2005
    star 4
    Well now Shelley im with you now.
    I like Mara, but she does get to much credit and hasnt lived up and done as many things the others had accomplished.But maby in time she just may....you never know.
  9. JacenSolo48 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 1
    I have not gotten the TPB's yet with her early history yet, just volumes 3, 6, and 7. Seven is later on, after the earlier exploits. But I have read about her in several areas. Put simply, she is a Hand given to Lord Vader to use in Vader's plans against the Rebel Alliance. She is to get close to, and sabotage Luke Skywalker's plans, and do whatever Vader needs her to do for him. On a mission, Luke senses an urge from the Force to shoot at a target that happened to be Brie's fighter. She was presumed dead, and Luke was court-martialed by the Rebellion. He proved Shira's identity, and his own innocence. Meanwhile, Vader had Brie's life sustained with a suit similar to his own, and named her Lumiya, Dark Lady of the Sith. Lumiya then constructed a Force whip that is much cooler than that of Bane's girlfriend in Jedi vs. Sith, or Kit Fisto's in Cestus Deception. She was defeated by Luke Skywalker, after first besting him in a duel due to the unique design of her Light whip. Luke was unprepared to deal with it, but designed a way to do so. That is all I will say, go read the TPB. Later on, while trying to help first the extra-galactic Nagai, then the extra-galactic Tofs conquer the galaxy, she was shot, and presumed dead. She has had other, later rumored appearances in the SW galaxy, and will play a major role in the Legacy story arc. She had red hair, green eyes, and was around Luke, Mara, and Leia's age.
    Shelley, I agree that Mara should not be the equal of Luke, Leia, and Han. In my opinion, neither should the kids, at least in terms of presentation. I know that their stories have to be told because they are the next generation and all, but I am tired of the other kids, including Tahiri, Alema, Zekk, and others getting more attention than Lando and Wedge. Nevertheless, they have made these decisions, which makes it harder to like the books. I put Mara in there because she is Luke's wife, and has to have a major role by virtue of that. Now if Del Rey could ever be consistent, and include more of Lando and Wedge with their wives, I would be happy.
    I want to make clear what I meant when I said greater capacity for evil or good on Anakin's part. Obviously, his powers mean so. I also think that the nature of his upbringing is what makes him (pre- and post- Vader) and Luke so honest, idealistic, and wholesome compared to Mara, and even Leia, and almost anyone else who grew up in more opulence. Not to say that Leia is not as idealistic or honest, but it just does not have the same wholesomeness that Anakin and Luke's upbringing gave them. Their emotions are much more on their sleeves to the credit and blame of them both depending on the choices they make. In every way, father and son feels more and is better than Mara. Even though I cringe when I see this trait written to prop up the worldliness and sophistication of other characters, I still like the wholesomeness. God bless. -JacenSolo48
  10. JadeLotus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2005
    star 4
    Why is it whenever a character is seemingly not living up to their full potential, or getting the attention they deserve it is the fault of another character?

    I'm sure all of the NJO authors sat around having lunch at at Skywalker Ranch gossiping and *****ing about how much they hate Leia and what horrible things they all would do to her in order to make Mara look better. :rolleyes:
  11. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Yep.

    I disagree. Just because she is Luke's wife does not mean she needs to be a major character. I imagine she'd automatically get more page time than, say, Lando's wife because Luke is a main character and of course he'd interact with her...but there is nothing that says she had to be bumped up to a main character simply because she is Luke's wife.

    Personally, I preferred her as a supporting character. But I would have been more accepting of her sudden status as a main character had it been accompanied with some development of her (which it wasn't; the only difference between NJO Mara and early-Bantam Mara was that she was married to Luke instead of wanting to kill him), and if the books didn't suddenly pretend she was there all along, was on the same level as Luke, Leia and Han. They can refer to her as a core, classic character all they want, it doesn't magically transform it into the truth.

    I agree. Lando and Wedge are supporting characters, but if they're suddenly going to treat Mara like a main character just because Luke married her, then they should likewise bump up Lando and Wedge's wives to their status.

    Not just more opulence...Leia grew up being exposed to and serving in galactic politics her whole life.

    To a certain extent, yes. Luke grew up fairly isolated from the ugliness of the galaxy. Anakin grew up on the same planet, but he was also born into slavery and was exposed to some harsh realities of life at a young age. He also grew up fatherless; Luke grew up with both a father figure and a mother figure.
  12. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    Why doesn't everyone calm down? Discuss things rationally, please.
  13. rogue_wookiee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 6
    Don't you miss the days when we were part of all this, Rhonderoo? :p
  14. JacenSolo48 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 1
    Computer-error generated double post. Disregard this and read below. God bless. -JacenSolo48
  15. JacenSolo48 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 1
    Shelley, I know that Anakin grew up without a father figure (he had no father after all, other than the Force), and this obviously left him open to the manipulations of Palpatine. He did, like his son have a capacity for empathy that runs very deep. This capacity seems not to have gone on to his daughter. I know Leia was shaped by an environment where she was expected to do quite a bit, but that never really made me comfortable with her behavior. I mean, Luke had to work probably much harder than she did, with a lot less reward. The key difference was that he worked his rear off in physical labor, and she worked hard in politics. In other words, Luke had a much harder life, yet he was always more, I do not want to be trite by saying it again but I will, more wholesome and nice. She never had the ability to empathize with, and forgive that Luke had. Of course, part of this was the fault of the writers in the EU who seemed determined that because she was somewhat harsh in the movies at first, that she should be unforgiving and harsh in the books. I feel that they have damaged her character. Do not get me wrong, I like her,and she is one of my favorite characters, but she is less likable than other characters because of the way that the EU writers have portrayed her.
    God bless. -JacenSolo48
  16. SuperLariat Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 2
    I think the reason Luke and Anakin are so much more idealistic and such is based only on two points:

    Born (well, not TECHNICALLY Luke, but yea..) on Tatooine, to a poor (?) man's life as a moisture farmer/slave (really poor there).

    Anakin as the Chosen One, and Luke as the Coup De Grace, were trained by Obi-Wan, and humbled by Yoda.

    The great General, and the great Grand Master had a strong part in the persons they seem to have become.
  17. burrie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2000
    star 4
    So, about Leia's jedi status, Mara's attitude towards Leia and Vader, and the Mara/Shira connection...
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