[NRW] National Retcon Week 2008 (6-12th April)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Thrawn McEwok, Apr 1, 2008.

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  1. IcePirate Force Ghost

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    i'll take your word for it, but i'd still like to read the source some more (so maybe i can draw more from it).
  2. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

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  3. IcePirate Force Ghost

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    i'm not a hyperspace member.... my loss. i'm fairly familiar with your article. good stuff. just wish we could tie some loose ends together.
  4. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Live, damn you!! LIVE!!!! :_|
  5. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Yup. And you'd be very welcome to do so!

    I have another thread on it, but essentially, my theory involves the Battle of Esfandia seeing the Ryn fleet led by Daala off-screen and including Mandalorians...

    And quantum armour may be the same thing as Mandalorian iron...

    Anyone want my Sidious = Kueller retcon again? :D
  6. vereor_lynas Jedi Knight

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    Mar 27, 2008
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    well sinre.. i could do with something to read! :p
  7. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Good enough reason. :p Though I shall copy one of the explanations I used elsewhere, and add to it.


    The idea is that, a few years after Empire's End, Palpatine took over a young man named Dolph who had been one of Luke's Jedi students, renaming him Kueller. Hooking up with Brakiss, another of Luke's fallen Jedi, he started a plot which took two years. Filling droids with explosives, more or less, from their control of a droid construction planet. All civilised worlds, and others.

    Kueller haunted the Skywalker-Solo Force-users with terrible nightmares - seemingly like Sidious in RotS. He even went out of his way to harass Mara Jade over all the other Jedi outside Luke's family, which would fit his persona. He deemed every other Jedi beneath his attention - they were too weak. Yet he harassed Mara Jade with nightmares.

    Throughout the book references to him being like the Emperor were made continuously. Either it was his strategy of hiding behind enemy lines from Han, or that Mara hasn't "felt power like this since Palpatine in the early days".

    Throw in his ability to feed off death, an ability which we've seen taught and not learnt by Nihilus and Sidious - apart from Lomi Plo and the Killiks, but that was a natural side-effect of Joining - then Kueller either found a Sith Holocron - making him a Sith - or inherited all Sidious knew.

    We know Sidious can overshadow an individuals personality, as threatened against Leia's son and seen when he drove insane Jeng Droga after Endor. Marka Ragnos did the same to Tavion. He could easily overshadow the spirit of a young and emotionally shattered boy - Dolph parents had been murdered, after all.

    Beyond the layered strategies, with Imperials being elected to the Senate after he wipes out a chunk of the Senate - said Imperials deadlocking the Senate - with explosives in X-wings and droids, and with his intimate choices of which Force sensitives to torture with nightmares is this point;

    'Thwarted again, somehow, by Skywalker and his friends'

    This is from Kueller's perspective; Kueller has never dueled with Skywalker and his friends before. Yet, there he was, thinking to himself he'd been thwarted. And then, trapped in a ysalamiri bubble, Kueller died - Sidious had no touch of the Force when he went.

    It's a considerably neater way to make sure Sidious is gone too, incidentally. There is always the untouched plot that Sidious could escape the afterlife - escape the Jedi holding him - and return. Considering the Jedi didn't stop him jumping after Endor, or after Da Soocha, why should they now?

    And even when he died, Dolph, the young man behind Kueller, had the signs of his skin mottling from dark side use - exactly as Sidious would eventually have. We are unaware exactly how fast such an issue would take, as Sidious' clones were genetically tampered with when they collapsed in record speed. As a young Jedi, Dolph may have lasted longer with such awesome power./>
  8. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

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    Responding to a month-old post, but I've been reading up on Vergere for some Wookieepedia stuff, and now that I have a better picture of what she's actually about I like this a lot. The Jedi/Sith conversation is particularly interesting that it's not a stretch; reading that passage with a slightly different mindset, it reads just like you say. She's trying to tell him about the Jedi and Hett's too busy yammering on about the Sith to pay attention, until she finally gives up and tells him he's on his own.

    I don't think her association with Sidious needs to be a big lie either, though, since I think a lot of her philosophy could have been developed from Sith teachings, just with a...Jedi twist. That's probably a thread in and of itself, though.

    The one point I was sticking on when rereading the comic (before I read your post here) was the "dark anger" line. I haven't read Traitor, so I didn't realize it was, as you say, "essentially no different from her torture of Jacen." She is OK with using pain and anger, then? That seems at odds with her bit (in the infamous "There is no dark side" passage) about how the dark side is letting the darkness within you out when you surrender to the Force, which isn't something she seems fond of.
  9. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    Agreed. It's not a deception so much as a misdirection. It's clear, I think, that she had something to do with Sidious. What she doesn't tell Hett is that she became disenfranchised and left him after trying to kill him.
    Was Vergere really against righteous anger and emotion?
  10. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

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    I don't know. Like I said, I haven't read Traitor. :p Other than a few snippets, at any rate.
  11. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Nor me... but from those snippets, of Traitor, it appears as though Vegere is simply saying:

    "There is nothing dark about the Force, it's just that using too much of it brings out the worst in you - it can only work with what's already there. The Jedi call this the dark side."

    And that she's trying to create the "living Jedi dream" - someone who, because they meet everything "with love" (not passion) has no bad in them to bring out. Which would preclude them using anger and stuff. (But perhaps *not* emotions like love? I don't know.)

    She's essentially trying to shape the knight who can sit in the Seat Perilous (which is the dark side/the Force Unleashed, in this case).

    So, where she differs from Jedi Orthodoxy appears to be in her belief that, if a person truly extinguishes the small seeds of evil within themselves, they have nothing to fear from using the Force unbound (what the Jedi call the 'dark side' because of its tendency to take those seeds of evil and make them flower). That's not to say that they're allowed to do anything they want - why would a Jedi who meets the galaxy with "love" use lightning when they can end a person's existance much less painfully? - just that they can channel "extreme amounts of Force energy" without the fear of corruption... because there's no darkness within for the Force to bring out. At the same time, she knows she can't force anyone to take this road. She'll tell people what she knows, certainly, but she's also aware that she can't make them truly "listen" unless they've got a receptive mind.

    Still, whilst I think Vegere is right in her description of what the dark side is (because, looking at it, she hasn't said there's no external element, just that the internal is what gives the external something to work with), I also get the feeling that she's painfully naive. The sort of "perfect Jedi" that she's trying to shape is not - in any way - sustainable.
  12. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    Found it! Someone in the thread had mentioned that Zahn had made implications that Vader's suit - or at least his mask - was designed to emulate the Noghri, which wasn't really supported anywhere else.
  13. jSarek VIP

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    If you're looking for a specific source about Zahn making those implications, it's in SWAJ#1:

  14. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    Oh, way awesome, thanks!

    So I figure if the NRW thread survives well into the dates originally set for it, we should be good. :p
  15. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/b/b8/Ziro.JPEG]=[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/9/99/QueenJool.jpg]
  16. R_Zion Force Ghost

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    Nov 23, 2004
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    I'll raise your Ziro and see you a...

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/47/Rotta.jpg] = [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/9/99/QueenJool.jpg]


    Rotta, confused about gender issues, finds he likes to cross-dress and wear make-up, which embarrasses his father, resulting in his eventual disowning his son and claiming he has no children.

    Rotta, taking on the pseudonym of Queen Jool, travels to Coruscant, claims Ziro's club for some time before eventually selling it and opening Rik's Cantina.
  17. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    ::checks watch::
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