PT Nute Gunray's Accent

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by KilroyMcFadden, Apr 18, 2013.

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  1. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Of what:confused:

    Let see... Watto is a junkyard owner with a gambling problem, two slaves and bad attitude...

    So, ähm, rednecks?



    Apologizing to the rednecks who read this, you are probably not as bad as the stereotype[face_peace]
  2. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    To me it sounds a bit like the actors are trying to speak through their noses (that's the term right?)
  3. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    He's also a big racing fan. Hell, the pod-race sound effects are even taken from NASCAR.

    Also, he doesn't accept Republic Credits. He wants something "more real", the same argument the gold & silver crowd use when decrying paper money as a scam perpetrated by the government.

    So, Redneck? Not necessarily. But I bet he's a Tea Bagger.
    StarWarsVerses likes this.
  4. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    [IMG]
    If you can't see why this is offensive, you probably can't see why this is offensive either;
    [IMG]
    Don't see the resemblance? That's fine. Just know that the wool which covers you eyes doesn't cover mine.
  5. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    @Chainmail_Jedi

    I always thought Watto was more related to the Italian mafia. For example, the hat is pretty similar to Italian mafia hats:

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    And then there's the fact that italians are often stereotyped as having big noses. Want proof? Type in "italians h" into google and the first result is "italians have big noses." I've always found the Italian mafia comparison makes more sense given not only Watto's speech, but the fact that he's involved in illegal activity.

    Moreover, I think you miss one of his defining characteristics that is definitely not ascribed to Jewish people -- Watto is a big-time gambler. Jewish stereotypes, on the contrary, have portrayed them as penny-pinchers and cheapskates.

    In large part, I'd say that Watto's definitely got a mafioso vibe. He even tells Anakin in Episode II that he needs help to beat up some "deadbeats" who owe him a lot of money. Reminds one of the physical intimidation tactics of the Italian Mafia, no?
  6. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    About the accents, and the racism in general in the prequels:

    I do not believe for an instant that George Lucas woke up one day in 1997 thinking: "Hey, let me write some characters that are really going to piss off blacks, Asians, and Jews". I think he just lived in a series of bubbles that left him kind of culturally isolated and out of touch such that he didn't quite understand that there's some stuff you just don't do anymore, no matter what your intentions are. It isn't just what we've heard about how the Ranch works, either. You also kind of have to understand how Marin County works, too, and the mindset that develops there. And you have to understand that George is almost 70, and isn't quite up to date on the latest in political correctness, either, which means that he may just slip into the sort of thing like when your grandma refers to one of your friends as "that Oriental girl", not out of any malice, but because she hasn't quite gotten the memo that you're supposed to say "Asian" now.

    So George still has this thing about recreating the movie serials he remembers from when he was a kid - mostly filmed in the 30s and rebroadcast on TV in the 50s. But what he doesn't quite get is that there's stuff in those serials that, while not blatantly racist in the "Birth of a Nation" sense, is outdated, inaccurate, and insensitive stuff that really is out of place today. It was, as many have said, "a product of its time", and its time is not now.

    It's actually fairly likely that he never really understood that those serials were racially insensitive. If you get to be 40ish, go back and rewatch a TV show you liked when you were a kid and haven't seen since then - there will likely be a lot in them that you didn't pick up on when you were a kid. I recently started rewatching Mork & Mindy after not having seen it since I was a kid, and was shocked at the degree of racy humor and innuendo that Robin Williams got away with in it, and that, of course, went right over the head of the six-year-old version of me. Similarly, I started watching Buck Rogers again, and it finally clicked why all the women in that show dressed the way they did and why my mom wasn't all that happy about me watching that show. If the racial insensitivity in those serials just never clicked for George, and he set out to recreate them without it ever having clicked, what you'd get is... well, what we got.

    So yeah - I don't think he meant any harm, and had he not been isolated within some bubbles that kept things from clicking for him, he wouldn't have put what he did on the screen. The biggest fault here was that somebody should have told him, and should have made him listen, even at the risk of their job.
    Sarge likes this.
  7. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 3
    The mere fact that someone compared the Neimoidians' accent to French proves that it probably wasn't meant to imitate anything in particular. I'm a native speaker of French, and I can assure you that I never said anything like, say, "Aktivot teh droidhas!"
    However, I can tell you that the Nemoidians do have a convincing French accent in the German dub of Episode I. And in the French dub, they were given a stereotypical Russian accent à la "Cold War villains."
  8. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    To use metaphor;

    Just because John Travolta didn't mean to shoot Marvin in the face, it doesn't change the fact that he still shot shot him in the face.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, May 1, 2013
  9. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Keep fooling yourself.

    Watto was definitely portrayed as a cheap-skate penny pincher in addition to a gambler.
  10. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Right back at ya. ;)

    Errr...not seeing how. He clearly had bought other pods for Anakin to race in before, which is quite an extravagent expense.

    Plus, after he loses Shmi, he (by all appearances) falls into poverty -- not a stereotype generally associated with Jewish people. On the contrary, being good with money (and manipulative) is a much more common portrayal.

    It fits perfectly with the mafia connection, though, especially when you take into account the line about deadbeats who owe him money, as I pointed out before.

    But you're free to believe what you want to believe.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  11. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    I see your caricature and raise you...

    [IMG]

    Big nose? Check. Scraggly beard? Check. No hat, but hell, that damn thing on Watto's head is more of a helmet. We could drag in World War I soldiers and Don Quixote, but that'd be a bit much.

    [IMG]
  12. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    LAWL
  13. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    [Removed. Not going there. ~Sx3]
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, May 1, 2013
  14. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    [face_dancing]

    [face_tired]
  15. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Or perhaps we simply don't look at Watto and have our minds scream "JEWS!!!!111!!!!!" at us in a fit of apoplexia?

    Considering your only evidence seems to be that Watto is a "Jewish" stereotype because of his big "nose," a hat, and an accent.

    And Italians are also often stereotyped with large noses, the Italian/Sicilian mafia also has a remarkably similar accent, utilize similar hats, gamble profusely, and try to beat up "deadbeats," forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe that Watto was based off the latter than the former. Especially since many of his most prominent characteristics -- his gambling, for one -- are in direct contradiction to Jewish stereotypes.

    But again, believe what you want.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, May 1, 2013
  16. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    That's not my only evidence. I suggest you go back and look at just how similar the anti-semitic caricature and Watto look. Everything from the nose, yes, the hat yes, but even their eyes and teeth are similar.

    And, Watto clearly possess greed as a personality trait (although you seem to deny that)
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, May 1, 2013
  17. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    [IMG]

    He also collects gold coins like a fiend. Does that mean he's a cheapskate, too?
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, May 1, 2013
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  18. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I'm not seeing the eyes or teeth truthfully.

    The teeth -- Watto has tusk-like teeth. That caricature has very small, sharp, shark-like teeth covered in drool.

    Same with the eyes -- the caricature lacks any kind of iris at all, while Watto's is quite prominent. The caricature's eyes also look rather sickly and deranged, with huge bags, while Watto's look normal (if wrinkly). Plus, Watto has almond shaped eyes while the caricature's are round.

    And like I said before, the big nose and the hat are both pretty characteristic of Italian mafia gangsters.

    Plus, greed is basically at the core of gambling. You can't have one without the other, really, since the whole point of gambling is to make more money. But Watto's never shown as particularly cheap or penny-pinching. He's rather risky with his money. Again, a much more mafia-like characteristic than one associated with a Jewish caricature.

    But, again, you're free to believe what you like.
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  19. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    The eyes? Not really. Watto has round pupils, not the lizard/feline slits that the caricature does. For that, you could go to General Grevious maybe. And the teeth? The caricature's are predatory sharp. Watto... well, let's say he looks like he needs a dental plan. I don't think he could bite somebody if he tried. At most, they have more of a walrus/elephant look of tusks, which with the trunk/nose makes sense.

    As for greed-- that's not a universally "Jewish" trait. There's just as much stereotyping of Scotts, Italians and Arabs for the same greedy, pennypinching behavior. In fact pretty much all of the traits that are pointed to with Watto as being indicative of racist stereotyping belong to multiple ethnic groups, which explains why there were several groups that complained about him in 1999. Now everyone has their right to their opinion, but they can't all be exclusively conclusive at the same time.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, May 1, 2013
  20. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    I'm done discussing this. If you want to deny that Watto is anti-Semitic, go ahead.

    This probably isn't appropriate, will probably get me banned, probably violates TOS, but, just out of curiosity, are the two of you white and of Anglo-Saxon descent?
  21. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    you're absolutely right! Watto is offensive,

    I also felt this way about Sidious when his face changed, I mean how offensive to albino's

    white face and hair and everything.

    And I really didn't like the pee take out of Nosferatu either, imagine putting Tion Medon in there like that!!

    and blue skinned people in general, what a slap in the face to people from Kentucky

    [end Sarcasm]
  22. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    @Chainmail_Jedi

    I'm French-Armenian. So white, but not Anglo-Saxon as far as I know.

    But, anyway, I'll drop Watto since we seem to be heading off-topic. Actually, we've headed off topic and driven off the cliff.

    In regards to Nute Gunray's accent, though, I've always thought that he seemed to have elements of homage and parody. I mentioned kung fu movies before, but I think Jedi_Ford_Prefect likely got it closer when he brought up Japanese films that have poor dubbing. Although, personally, I've always felt Nute's name was a more interesting conversation piece.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, May 1, 2013
  23. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I love how Gunray's thread is all about Watto and anti-Semitism...



    just not sure how long my love will last.
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  24. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
    in that case SSS

    Nute Gunrays accent is teh funny

    either intentionally or unintentionally

    how is that? :p
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  25. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    The problem is that the same traits you're pointing out as anti-Semitic can be used to describe stereotypes of Arabs, Turks, Russians, Italians and god knows what else. Back in '99 some of these groups brought up Watto as offensive along with Jewish groups, and if they're all claiming offense, they should all be taken just as seriously, with each claim given equal weight. As such, you can't really say that any one particular group has a monopoly of offense here-- no one group can be singled out if you have multiple sources of objection.

    My heritage is more Irish, though frankly I've always been rather dreadfully bored of the idea of identifying myself with where my ancestors came from. What's my descent? I'm from New York. Or as someone else put it--

    [IMG]
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