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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Obesity is a choice

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by malkieD2, Nov 21, 2005.

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  1. Mustafar_66

    Mustafar_66 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    All good sports. However, if we're talking about part of the school curiculum (sp?), then you can count out golf, swimming (unless the school has a pool) and and skiing. We already do cross country/running and you have to walk around campus and that can be quite a trek sometimes.
     
  2. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    All you have to do is watch your calories and you can avoid obesity. Yes I believe in genetics, but choices through life affect what happens to us.
     
  3. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Depends on the school - we had swimming (at a public swimming baths), and skiing (on a dry ski slope).

    I didn't go to a nice school or anything - just convience because of our location.

    Variety is always good, but walking twice around school campus twice a week is all you'll need.
     
  4. JediofJade

    JediofJade Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 1999
    Someone said that losing weight is hard. No. It isn't.

    My parents are overweight, and a few months ago, they went on a diet. No exercise, just portion control. They lost a combined weight of about 50 pounds in three months.

    I joined a gym about a year ago because I was tired of coming home from school and just watching tv and stuffing my face. I decided to cut down to 1500 calories a day recently, and have lost about eight pounds, even though I have the metabolism of a hibernating grizzly. You know what? 1500 calories a day is a lot of food, if you eat the right stuff. I was amazed at how easy it was to make this change in my habits. I now go to the gym six days a week and immensely enjoy it.

    Being a healthy weight is entirely your choice. If you have the right attitude, dropping the pounds will be a breeze.
     
  5. LemmingLord

    LemmingLord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Besides, anyone can just cut off a limb if they want to cut down on weight. Lop it off and watch the pounds go bye bye.
     
  6. Mustafar_66

    Mustafar_66 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    I hear it did wonders for Anakin Skywalker. He put the weight back on quickly though...
     
  7. Espaldapalabras

    Espaldapalabras Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Um, did you miss the part where the only way to control them is by locking all the food so they can't eat?

    If they are locked in a room where there is no food or set free to do as they will either way they have no control over their weight. What you said is that obesity is a choice 100% of the time, and for these people it is clearly *not* a *choice* because when they are obese it is not by choice, and when they aren't it by choice either.

    Besides, this thread is not to discuss the tiny number of suffers - it far more directed at the vast majority who have an obvious choice, yet chose to do nothing.

    What I have been calling you out on isn't the basic premise, but the faulty logic when you made the generalization that all fat people are that way by choice. Perhaps not all with Paeder Wilis are fat, but those that are fat are not fat by choice.

    I am not fat and I agree that most people are fat because of choices they make, but you asked that I provide one person that was not fat by choice, and I said that if I could get you to admit that there is at least 1 person out there that is not fat by choice I would have "won" but as you said it takes a certain amount of balls to admit when you are wrong.
     
  8. EnforcerSG

    EnforcerSG Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    What about children who are more or less forced by their parents to eat fattening foods? Or maybe not so much fattening food, but just a lot of food in general? Between the parents making bad choices and the kids not having much say, is it always the child's choice if they become fat?
     
  9. JediofJade

    JediofJade Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 1999
    When I see fat kids, I want to punch their parents in the face.

    However, even if you had terrible role models growing up, once you reach a certain age, you have to start taking responsibility for your actions. You may start off at a disadvantage, but like I said earlier, losing weight isn't the arduous struggle that so many (fat) people make it out to be. If you've got the willpower, you're golden.
     
  10. MariahJSkywalker

    MariahJSkywalker Poopoo Head star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Between the parents making bad choices and the kids not having much say, is it always the child's choice if they become fat?




    I say no it's not their choice, but as they get older than it becomes their choice. Adults know better, really doesn't matter how they are raised they soon find out they might have to make different arrangements in what they eat and their activity.
     
  11. son_of_the_tear

    son_of_the_tear Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 1999
    Sigh... it's not so easy.

    Yes, it can be a choice. But not all the case. Many times it is an eating disorder caused by mental illness or other factors that need pychological treatment.

    As someone who suffers from an eating disorder, I am extremely disgusted by most of the responses in this thread. Disgusted. I didn't ask for this.
     
  12. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I don't know which dream world you are living in, but I never said anything of the sort. Posting knowingly false information like that is against the TOS - highlight where I said that in this thread, or retract your nonsense comment.

    edit I've just re-read every post I've made on the matter, and at no point have I said what you are accusing me of. Throughout the Senate forum you have posted lies, libel and complete and utter nonsense. You are honestly approaching being a disgrace to the this forum.

    Again, I'll stress that having a disorder makes it extremely hard to choose appropriately, but nevertheless no matter what you are suffering from you still have the choice of having a controlled diet coupled with exercise or not.

    However, again I'll stress that the direction I wanted this thread to take was dealing with the millions of obese people with nothing even approaching an excuse, and also the role of the Government in making a better, healthier nation.






















    I agree with the points about parents - they should really play a much bigger role in organising their childs diet and exercise routine.
     
  13. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Since I know a bit more than most people here about Espaldapalabras' religious background (we are both LDS), I'm going to be writing a bit more specific to him, but many of the principles can be applied to everyone.

    Um, did you miss the part where the only way to control them is by locking all the food so they can't eat?

    If they are locked in a room where there is no food or set free to do as they will either way they have no control over their weight. What you said is that obesity is a choice 100% of the time, and for these people it is clearly *not* a *choice* because when they are obese it is not by choice, and when they aren't it by choice either.


    Are you claiming that they are denied their agency, their ability to choose between right and wrong? Are you saying that they are unable to choose to follow the Word of Wisdom? Wouldn't that then go against what Nephi said?

    Aweakened amount of self control does not remove choice from you. It simply makes the choice more difficult. They still have their agency, and are held accountable for their choices, including in how they care for their bodies.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  14. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    From what I recall from a photo of yourself you posted in the Social Thread, you're...y'know...not obese... :confused:
     
  15. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I couldn't agree more.
     
  16. Espaldapalabras

    Espaldapalabras Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2005

    As we were talking about these two issues it would be easy to see how I mixed up what you were talking about because it was basically the same arguement for both, but instead you had to attack me personally, but as you're a mod you are above the "law."
    Like I always have said, this place is a higher form of flamming.


    I don't think you understand the disorder, they don't have the choice of a "controlled diet" because they aren't the ones choosing it. As it is linked with mental disorders they don't understand that they can't eat because their body is telling them they are starving. It is those around them that have to force them not to eat, and so when a person who has this disorder and is overweight it is not by choice.


    Are you claiming that they are denied their agency, their ability to choose between right and wrong?


    The mentally disabled and children do not know the difference between right and wrong so we don't condemn them. All I am saying is that for some circumstances we don't know that they had agency in what has happened to them, which means they aren't accountable for their actions. For most people we do have a choice, but because of mental illness and such things some people do not have that agency, hence are not accountable. You wouldn't say a small child who shot his father would go to outer darkness, so if someone has a mental disorder how is that any different?

    I have never argued against the basic premise that most homeless and overweight are so by choice, but against the arguement that 100% of them are so by choice because it is a generalization, and all generalizations are wrong.
     
  17. LemmingLord

    LemmingLord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    It is interesting that most of these choices that one person can make that leads them to obesity can be made exactly the same way and lead to complete skinniness in someone with a high metabolism.
     
  18. Espaldapalabras

    Espaldapalabras Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Does that mean everyone that is too skinny is so by choice?
     
  19. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    all generalizations are wrong

    I love your posts, please don't ever lease this place.
     
  20. son_of_the_tear

    son_of_the_tear Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 1999
    Also, someone mentioned losing weight is not hard because of their parents, yadda, yadda, yadda. Your parents experience does not make for all the same.

    Take my cousin for example. He is not obese. But he is fat. Now, he doesn't over eat. He eats pretty well, with the occasional splurge like most of us. He is an active person. He doesn't work out, because just like me... I find it boring. But he is active like I am. Meaning, he walks everywhere and walks a lot. He rides his bike. Goes hiking. Loves the outdoors. But he is a heavy guy. Always has been. Not obese, but still a fat guy.

    Not saying Malkie is wrong. I agree with him on many points. But it's two fold. Yes, it's a choice. But yes, it can also be crap luck for various reasons. My cousin cannot slim down no matter how much he tries and he just gave up, because he shouldn't be starving himself or going on these various diets when he already eats well as it is and is an active person. Some people will just be big.

    Anyway.

    No, I'm not obese. But I still have an eating disorder, but just of another nature.

    " As a healthcare professional and a person extensively travelled... "

    Dude, just put that in your sig and leave it there. You're sounding like a scratched record :p

    If I had a dime for every single time you pull quote out in countless threads... I'd be a rich man.

    And no, not knocking you. I agree with most of your points (and more so the obesity problem concerning the U.S).

    I'm just saying... getting pretty, pretty old {Larry david voice}

    :p


     
  21. JediofJade

    JediofJade Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 1999
    As someone who suffers from an eating disorder, I am extremely disgusted by most of the responses in this thread. Disgusted. I didn't ask for this.

    I'm talking about normal people. It's a given that those with mental disorders will be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to controlling ones weight. And with some anorexics and bulimics, diet is often out of their control, going to the opposite end of the weight spectrum. If those people are starving themselves because they don't have the mental faculties necessary to convince themselves to eat, it's entirely possible that the same is true for obese people who can't convince themselves to stop eating due to mental problems.

    So, malkie is correct in that everyone has a choice. But for some people, the ability to make that choice is so hard it might as well be considered nonexistent.
     
  22. son_of_the_tear

    son_of_the_tear Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 1999
    Well, my eating disorder stemmed from stress... which had some of its origins in psychological problems already lingering. It started off slow.

    I suffer from anorexia and bulemia. What happened was that when I would get stressed. Not talking about some butterflies in my stomach... but when I'd get stressed or have an anxiety attack... I'd throw up. I mean, I wouldn't force myself. I don't nor ever have shoved my fingers down my throat. The food would just come up on its own, I'd go to the bathroom and without even trying I'd throw up.

    That's how it started. Now, when ever I get stressed, anxious... even lightly... I have to throw up. and it's altered my internal biological system as well. Because now many times my body tells me to throw up when I'm not even flustered. Probably because my stomach shrank because of it and it cannot handle a certain amount of intake.

    The problem with an ED... is that it is treatable... but it NEVER goes away. It's always there. One of the doctor's that treated me, for example, is doing a research on how the chemicals in your body are altered and thus, why it never goes away. I mean, one can go days, weeks, months, years and hell, even the rest of your life without falling into it... but it's always there lingering. This is an illness I am going to have for the rest of my life. Can't do jack about that except get treatment. But there is no cure.

    I do have a choice. In getting treatment for it. But that's as far as it goes.
     
  23. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2002
    To be fair, yes, I agree most obesity is the result of your own choices. I'm just saying I really don't care if people are fat-that's their problem.

    For the record, I'm not fat. I'm 5/3 and about 130 pounds and while I could stand to shape up and maybe lose a few, I do pretty well. Besides, I like veggies and salads-yummy yummy salads!

    I think we need to start when people are young and develop healthy eating habits. I also think we have a very unrealistic expectation of body image-in Hollywood, actresses like Kate Winslet are called fat when they're not.

    And for those who do have weight problems, taking off the weight and keeping it off can be a constant battle. I'm not saying that they can't do it, just that it's really hard, and I don't sit around going "Hey fattie!"

     
  24. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I'm just saying I really don't care if people are fat-that's their problem.

    But it isn't. It's our problem, but our taxes are going to pay for their health treatment (perhaps more important in the UK than the US, but even in the US you have a degree of state funded health care).

    Why should my taxes pay for a triple-heart bypass for someone who couldn't stay out of the cookie jar ?
     
  25. Espaldapalabras

    Espaldapalabras Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Seems like you are more against state run healthcare, because what you are suggesting is that because government provides health care government also has the duty to force people not to do things that are unhealthy. The smokers and drunks are just as much a cancer on society, so would you also institute a prohibition?
     
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