Obesity is a choice

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by malkieD2, Nov 21, 2005.

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  1. Darth_Yuthura Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2007
    star 4
    I have no issue if someone doesn't want to live a healthy life, but I do have issues if the health care they get is payed by taxpayers. If there were a universal health care put into place, then obese people could take advantage of everyone who pays taxes. As opposed to a person who takes good care of himself having to pay for medical coverage he doesn't need.

    If the obese would pay for their own medical needs and not insurance/taxpayers, then they can eat their hearts out and have as many bypass surgeries as they can afford.
  2. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    Hey but what about people who are obese before they even reach an adult age? For children, it's not a choice. Just to play devil's advocate here.

    As for universal health care, I don't think it is productive to make the issue about "this person is healthier than that person, so therefore they are taking advantage of us all". According to this logic, you could demonize any pregnant woman for being a licentious whore who takes advantage of taxpayers as well. Now, if you think it's a bad idea for other reasons--fine. But medical care should not be viewed as "a lazy person (or unhealthy person) taking advantage of the more-deserving"
  3. Darth_Yuthura Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2007
    star 4
    Well I think that people should take some responsibility.

    It shouldn't be that difficult to simply maintain a healthy lifestyle. I'm not talking about everyone looking like Atlas or Tyra Banks, but I don't like lazy people who resort to health care when they wouldn't have had to if they just kept themselves from overeating or living a sedentary life all the time.
  4. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I agree it's not always a choice for kids, they get given bad food from a young age. That is simply a matter of education and/or providing more good food that is as easy to buy/cook as unhealthy food.
  5. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    I think the problem here could also be a preventative approach to medicine, not the common approach doctors have: let's get you on as many prescriptions as possible, cause I get a bonus and just had lunch with the representative!

    Also, consider the access to healthy, wholesome foods for those who are on welfare. It is pretty limited. In fact, you can get potato chips and boxed mac-n-cheese easier than you can get an adequate amount of fresh produce or whole wheat bread. Many community gardening projects are being started solely to address this issue. Furthermore, consider how much cheaper and more accessible fast food is than food at the grocery store.

    So you see, a lot of this issue has to do with the present approach to illness in the United States, as well as access and distribution of health-promoting foods. Sure, laziness might play a HUGE factor, but you just want an excuse to hate on people, especially those that might dare to use public healthcare.

    Also, what about education? If people don't know how to take care of themselves, how can we reasonably expect people to make good choices?

    Furthermore, think of how many of our cities are set up. By and large, distances between, say, your house and the grocery store, are typically too great to walk. So people spend a significantly larger portion of their time riding in a car or taking public transit than in European cities, where walking--walking virtually EVERYWHERE--is a daily activity.


    Listen--I agree that obesity is by and large a product of CHOICES. I get angry that obese people are costing taxpayers so much money, and that people need to take more responsibility. It would be tempting to make the issue just about these three things. But in fact it can be more complicated than that.
  6. Darth_Yuthura Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2007
    star 4
    I already have another thread on the subject of suburbs. I address inability to walk being one of the consequences of sprawl.

    And if anyone thinks that I'm just bad-mouthing the obese because I have a hatred, I just want people to know that I'm including myself in my judgments. I'm not 'obese,' but I've dieted for a year and gained back the majority of the weight back. Part of it was because I believed I could afford to eat bad foods now and again, but then it became a habit. And living in a suburb detracted any opportunity to walk or bike to my destinations.

    Now that I've realized I can't maintain my lifestyle over the last several months, I'm dieting properly again and exercising whenever I can. I still have a long way to go, but I do not intend to not allow myself to eat crap without thinking of the consequences. Nor should anyone else who's blood pressure are at an unhealthy level.
  7. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    Someone earlier in the thread suggested a ban of advertising of fast food. I would wholly support this measure, unfortunately, the fast food industry has friends in high places and a LOT of money to lobby against such a measure. So it is discouraging.

    Although, if the tobacco industry could lose--despite their money and friends of influence--methinks it would be possible to achieve within a decade.
  8. Goldfarm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Although banning fast-food advertisements would be amazing and might have some impact on the obesity issues, I really think it will never happen. Not only is the fast-food industry extremely wealthy as people mentioned, but what is wrong with the advertisements? This isn't like tobacco being marketed to minors without warning of the health consequences. Fast food does not have any major health consequences if one eats it every once in a while. It is the individual choice to continually eat fast food for every meal and the lack of physical activity that causes severe adult and child obesity. Fast-food chains do not market their fast food like this though, so they are not doing anything wrong.
  9. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    Fast food commercials are often targeted towards children. As an exception, I have noticed that in the last few years that may not be entirely true. But smoking cigarettes won't give you cancer if you only do it "once in a while", so I don't really see the difference. And if you look at national statistics (which I am too lazy to go and research but have seen) there is a huge portion of the population that doesn't eat it in moderation.

    Essentially nothing is bad for you if you only do it in moderation, but "moderation" is not easily defined and varies from person to person. I'm not saying that fast food HAS to be banned, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

    Would it make any difference, do you think?
  10. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Too much alcohol is bad for you, but in moderation it is not.

    I don't agree with cigarettes not being harmful in moderation. You may not get cancer even if you smoke 50 a day, but even a few will damage you in some way.

    Perhaps a ban on fast food TV advertising at certain times of the day (e.g. when kids are likely to be watching) would be better. This is already done for alcohol and adult-themed adverts which are done later on.
    Alcohol adverts now have "enjoy responsily" in small text while they are showing, as well as similar writing on posters. Maybe junk food should have the same, or even on packaging.

  11. Goldfarm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Cancer isn't the thing that cigarettes have been "banned" for. They contain tobacco, which contains nicotine, which is a very addicting drug. Fast food does not contain any drug. This is the major difference. One is a drug which affects your nervous system; the other is food which provides nourishment for your body but is extremely unhealthy at the same time when done in excess. Also, fast food chains are now putting the nutritional information on fast food so that you know how disgusting the food is.
  12. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Cigarettes are more damaging then many illegal class drugs, yet they are allowed. This is strange to me, but that is for another topic.

    I have seen more advertisements on TV now which try to promote healthier living. The Simpsons when it shows on Channel4 is sponsored by a company called Change 4 Life, which promotes healthy lifestyle living.
  13. DVCPRO-HDeditor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2006
    star 4
    It has to do with taxation. There is a marijuana tax stamp that can be obtained, but it can only be obtained if you already have the marijuana, and its only legal to have the marijuana if you have the tax stamp. Its a legal catch-22. As for McDonald's not having drugs in its food: processed sugar and caffeine are drugs, my friends. They're just legally allowed because of corporate sponsorship.
  14. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Umm, fast food isn't the only food that's bad for you. Many well known restaurant chains, (ie, Cheesecake Factory) have desserts/burgers/dinners that are loaded with fat and calories.

    I read the food facts articles that appear from time to time listing the worst food choices at restaurants.

    One restaurant's cheeseburger is so bad for you that just eating it could give you a coronary!

    And, caffeine and sugar are not at present classified as "drugs." Caffeine is a mild stimulant, but not that bad for you. Sugar, on the other hand, is not a drug per se, but is bad in large quantities, which are easy to consume by eating canned fruit instead of fresh fruit, fruit juice, and lots of other things that are flavor-enhanced by "high fructose corn syrup."

    Easy weight loss suggestions: drink more plain water, eat more salads and fresh fruits and veggies, lay off the high calorie snacks like potato chips, etc.
  15. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
  16. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I dunno. Even if insulin resistance is a protective mechanism, it doesn't mean that it isn't the cause of all sorts of damage. The inflammatory response is a protective mechanism too, but it can have devastating effects on the body.
  17. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Well, actually, that link was saying specifically that obesity wasn't the thing causing the damage.
  18. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The idea in the story I think is that it's actually flooding the body with extra calories that overwhelm and impede normal biological processes, that is causing the damage. I wouldn't be surprised if that is at least partly true.
  19. Darth_Yuthura Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2007
    star 4
    I think that it's the inactivity of the body which causes the obesity problems. When you gain weight, you take in more calories than you burn off.

    If you are relatively fit, but only because you eat barely anything, I think you would suffer similar health effects. The only difference is that you would have a smaller body to manage. When you gain a lot of weight and don't exercise, your body's demands will overwhelm your heart's capacity.

    If you are obese, but exercise regularly, I would say you're less likely to suffer heart failure in the long run. Because you're frequently pushing your heart beyond your body's demands, exercise will strengthen your heart to cope with the additional demand.
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