PT Obi-one= Anakin?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Skelter, Nov 26, 2012.

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  1. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Uh, you've got to use what they've got? [face_laugh]
  2. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Well they were pretty evenly matched. If you actually watch the fight Obi-Wan wins primarily because of Anakin's ridiculously bad judgement and overconfidence (he tries to jump over Obi-Wan on the high ground). So yeah Obi-Wan is superior in combat was what I was saying.

    As far as the force push is concerned, just because Anakin has supposedly more force Potential, doesn't mean his force power and/or ability to call on the force is greater than Obi-Wan's at that particular time. They were evenly matched in that force push, obviously.
    Last edited by FatSmel, Nov 29, 2012
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  3. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I think Obi Wan is just a beast at telekinesis and force pushes.
  4. THE PortmanLuvva Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2012
    star 2
    I think if Obi-Wan hadn't been so smart as to jumping on top of the hill, he woulda lost.o_O
  5. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    He provoked Anakin. He knew his former padawan too well and knew he would do the opposite of what was told (especially in this enraged state).
  6. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    So he shouldn't have done the 'gentlemanly thing" and kept his mouth shut while de-limbing Anakin? Sometimes honor demands you do something in the hope that your words are taken to heart even if one doesn't expect that they will be.
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  7. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Whoah, where did I say that it was a bad thing to do? It's a fight for the death, Obi-Wan should have used any trick at his disposal to win and he did. No one's blaming him for that.
  8. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Ah, my apologies...I've seen others in the past cite "Obi-Wan's provocation" of Anakin as another sign of his less-than-honorableness.
  9. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I find this conclusion utterly absurd. Completely, 100% ridiculous.

    Obi-Wan warning Anakin was some devilish trick to get Anakin to commit suicide?

    Telling someone "don't jump" is trying to get them to jump?

    If you look at Obi-Wan while he says "don't try it" (right after Anakin's hilariously hammy "you underestimate my power"), his eyes are bulging in disbelief, like "is this guy really gonna try this?"

    When Anakin jumps, Obi-Wan looks caught off guard for a fraction of a second, his hands drop, as if he didn't think Anakin would actually do it. Who would? It's an insane decision, one no one could predict.

    Hell, Obi-Wan should have just told Anakin not to dismember himself right off the bat. Anakin would have dismembered himself and it would have saved Obi-Wan a lot of time and energy.
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  10. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    So that's why he managed to cut off 3 limbs so neatly, because he so didn't expect it to happen? After all the times Anakin was foolhardy or directly disobey Obi-Wan's orders, yeah, that's very ridiculous indeed. Sorry, but I prefer to think of Obi as a pretty smart guy, if occasionally reckless himself. He might be hoping that Anakin won't do it (I don't think he really wants to kill him), but I do think he's ready.
  11. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I've seen arguments regarding Obi-Wan's abandonment of Anakin in suffering. I guess it's debatable, but I still think Obi-Wan didn't break the Jedi Code here.
  12. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    No, because he was in a superior position and recovers quickly enough to take advantage of Anakin basically jumping into his lightsaber. Anakin's attempt at jumping over Obi-Wan was unbelievably inept, he telegraphed it by first howling like a madman, he hung in the air for what seemed like forever and barely had enough distance to make it over Obi-Wan.

    He was prepared, but at the same time was momentarily shocked that Anakin actually tried something so dumb. If Obi-Wan was tricking Anakin, expecting what was coming, he wouldn't have hesitated and dropped his hands the way he did, it would have been one direct, smooth motion.

    If you're pointing a sword at someone and expecting them to attack you anyway, you don't lower your sword and then impale them, you just impale them.

    If you're pointing a gun at someone and expecting them to attack you anyway, you don't lower the gun, then raise it and shoot them, you just shoot them.

    Ultimately it didn't matter how prepared he was, because Anakin did all the work for him. Obi-Wan could have done it with his eyes closed.

    What you're suggesting comes off as more like omniscience than "pretty smart". Who would have the presence of mind to think of reverse psychology in a moment like that AND actually believe it would work?

    Even if there's any possibility of it, I have a tendency to believe the obvious, that he's simply warning Anakin, over the fantastical, that it's a "trick" to get Anakin to pwn himself.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Nov 30, 2012
  13. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Being on a higher ground doesn't automatically mean victory (look at Darth Maul). And, unlike, Obi-Wan vs Maul, Anakin has more options.

    He didn't expect Anakin to open up so badly, but that doesn't mean he didn't count on him making some kind of a mistake because of his arrogance. Remember, he knew Anakin's personality flaws better than anyone else.

    It's not exactly what Obi-Wan did.

    What you're suggesting comes off as more like omniscience than "pretty smart". Who would have the presence of mind to think of reverse psychology in a moment like that AND actually believe it would work?

    Even if there's any possibility of it, I have a tendency to believe the obvious, that he's simply warning Anakin, over the fantastical, that it's a "trick" to get Anakin to pwn himself.[/quote]

    You know, I'd agree with you if Obi-Wan tried to reason with Anakin or try to bring him back from the Dark Side. As it is, the warning is pointless: they're fighting to the death and, besides, Obi-Wan knows that his position is not 100%. Or it could be both a warning and an attempt to unsettle Anakin even more. As shaken as Obi-Wan is, he's still able to think at this point.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Really? I think at that point, Obi-Wan had decided that Anakin could not be brought back, and was just doing his best to not have to kill him.

    Of course Obi-Wan's position is not 100 percent,. but I don't think he's trying to unsettle Anakin. I'd say it probably is a warning, since Obi-Wan really does not want to have to kill Anakin--or leave him for dead, as the situation became.
  15. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    That's what I thought, actually.

    That's debatable. After all, Obi-Wan is the one who ignited his lightsaber first. And a couple of moments during the duel he did come close to killing Anakin.

    Yoda told him outright that the boy he trained is gone (same thing they'll tell Luke). So why would he try to warn him if he thought Anakin was too far gone? He has to stop him somehow.
  16. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Obi-Wan was NOT trying to provoke anakin into jumping, that's absurd (^for reasons that have been mentioned) and thinking that it's a possibility shows complete misunderstanding of the characters and their relationships.

    Back to the original topic, it should have been fairly obvious that the REASON that the "force push" was actually in that duel was to demonstrate that anakin and obi-wan are relatively equal. That was the whole reason it was there . . .
    Last edited by FatSmel, Dec 1, 2012
  17. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    at that point in time.

    Especially considering that Anakin would still need decades to come into his true force potential....and also, the fact that he is only a newly minted Sith, well, he would have trouble completely controlling all of his emotions and everything.
  18. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Yeah give anakin 5 years to train and grow stronger and Obi would have S.T.ruggled
  19. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I'm still not convinced. It seems like an ambiguous scene to me. Obi-Wan is the one who trained Anakin and knows his weaknesses as well as his tendency to disobey orders. It might have been a subconscious decision on his part. I mean, does he really think Anakin will abandon fighting just because he's been warned? It's just stupid.
  20. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    A lot of the prequel trilogy is "just stupid". Obi-Wan still probably had hopes of bringing anakin in and redeeming him, considering how close they were
  21. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Only "stupid" in your mind and some others; NOT in the minds of many.
  22. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    If by "stupid" you mean people actually make mistakes, than yes. Just like in real life.
  23. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    I love the prequel trilogy. but i doubt there is anyone in the world who has watched it and not found certain parts "stupid"
  24. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Depends on how one defines "stupid" I'd think. How do you define it?
  25. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Exactly, and for that reason i would define this entire argument as "stupid" :p
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